Author Topic: Torque converter  (Read 416 times)

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Offline paulheger

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Torque converter
« on: 12 March 2018, 07:28 »
Hi Guys,
I just removed the engine from my 1969-1500 autostick and was a bit surprised that the part no of my torque converter ended with an A. I found a German article on semi automatics stating that:
 ET-Nr.  001 323 571 A = 1300 cm³
 ET-Nr.  001 323 571 C = 1500/1600 cm³

I am fitting a rebuild 1500 engine, is it smart to look for an other torque converter (C-type)?

Thx!



 
1969 type 1 - 1500 conv - semi automatic

Offline sb001

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Re: Torque converter
« Reply #1 on: 13 March 2018, 22:28 »
Interesting- my original 69 1500cc torque converter was 001 323 571 B !  :D
When I changed it a few years ago, the one I got was also "C".  Reading back in some of my posts over on the samba about that, it seems that the spigot on the new "C" torque converter had a bit of trouble engaging with the gland nut (just a hair too big.) I apparently sanded the spigot down just a bit, although I don't remember doing it! So check that before putting everything back together--otherwise I have been using this "C" torque converter for about 5 years now with zero problems.

Offline paulheger

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Re: Torque converter
« Reply #2 on: 20 March 2018, 10:37 »
Apparently my gearbox has been changed in the years. My 1500 autostick is fitted with a BJ gearbox (production for 1300 engine from aug 1970).

For a vw 1500 autostick from aug 1969 a BA gearbox should be expected, which has the  001 323 571 B torque converter.

All parts seem in great condition and I'm not fitting a tuned engine, so I'll keep the BJ gearbox for now.
1969 type 1 - 1500 conv - semi automatic

Offline 68autobug

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Re: Torque converter
« Reply #3 on: 22 March 2018, 11:16 »
I don't think I have ever noted the part number of My torque converter.  I can have a look as I replaced the gearbox and torque converter from a low mileage 1969 car. Never ever thought that there would be a difference. We had 1500 and 1600cc engines in the autosticks sold in Australia. I don't believe that any 1300cc autosticks were sold down here.  Maybe because We have some very steep hills over here.!!

Lee in Australia
-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug

Offline sb001

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Re: Torque converter
« Reply #4 on: 24 March 2018, 07:57 »
Apparently my gearbox has been changed in the years. My 1500 autostick is fitted with a BJ gearbox (production for 1300 engine from aug 1970).

For a vw 1500 autostick from aug 1969 a BA gearbox should be expected, which has the  001 323 571 B torque converter.

All parts seem in great condition and I'm not fitting a tuned engine, so I'll keep the BJ gearbox for now.

The only thing I would suggest is making sure the spigot on the A torque converter you have engages properly with the flex plate gland nut on the new 1500 engine. I can't imagine it would be an issue though. Otherwise happy autosticking... ;D

Offline 68autobug

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Re: Torque converter
« Reply #5 on: 25 March 2018, 10:18 »
Yes the torque converter needs to be aligned with the splines on the flex plate when fitting another engine or fitting an engine that has been turned etc. as the splines need to fit into the flex plate before the 4 bolts are tightened.  I found out the hard way many years ago. My Torque converter was damaged internally and had to be replaced.


LEE in Australia
-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug

Offline paulheger

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Re: Torque converter
« Reply #6 on: 05 April 2018, 13:10 »
Thx Guys, but not sure I do understand, probably due to lack of technical English.  ;)

This is confusing me:
Quote
Yes the torque converter needs to be aligned with the splines on the flex plate when fitting another engine or fitting an engine that has been turned etc. as the splines need to fit into the flex plate before the 4 bolts are tightened
Do you mean the splines on the primary axle or the 4 bolt holes on the flexplate that fit the TC bolts?

Stepping stones, after browsing the forum: (please confirm)
1- The new engine already has an other flexplate fitted, I have to make sure the spigot on the TC (21mm dia) fits properly in the flex plate gland nut. Otherwise place the original plate.

2- Replace the TC seal (part no 001 301 083 A for a >08/1970 gearbox (BJ0345498 – vw 001 301 103)).

3- Before placing the TC, fill about half way with ATF (by putting it flat on the floor and fill until the ATF is approx. half way the hole).

4- When sliding on the TC, align the TC with the two splines on the primary axle, just by turning with a little push. It must be all the way back in the TC housing. Fix TC until engine is placed

5- After placing engine: put rag in the hole so bolts can't drop in TC housing and turn engine unit TC and flexplate bolt hole align and fit TC bolt, turn 180 deg. and fit 2nd bolt, etc.

Also:
I've disassembled the TC housing to check the clutch plate (was fine).
       it took me a while to find the 2 nuts inside the differential housing
Is it correct that the TC housing hasn't a gasket on both sides (gearbox and engine side)?

Thanks in advance!  This is my first beetle and thus the first autostick, but I love him!

1969 type 1 - 1500 conv - semi automatic

Offline sb001

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Re: Torque converter
« Reply #7 on: 05 April 2018, 15:38 »
Thx Guys, but not sure I do understand, probably due to lack of technical English.  ;)

This is confusing me:
Quote
Yes the torque converter needs to be aligned with the splines on the flex plate when fitting another engine or fitting an engine that has been turned etc. as the splines need to fit into the flex plate before the 4 bolts are tightened
Do you mean the splines on the primary axle or the 4 bolt holes on the flexplate that fit the TC bolts?

I think that was a bit of miswording-- It's just the spigot on the torque converter engaging the gland nut-- just make sure it fits in there nice and smooth.

Stepping stones, after browsing the forum: (please confirm)
1- The new engine already has an other flexplate fitted, I have to make sure the spigot on the TC (21mm dia) fits properly in the flex plate gland nut. Otherwise place the original plate.

If it doesn't fit for some reason (but most likely it will) it should be so close that you can just take an emory cloth like I did and sand down the spigot on the TC so it fits. It took me probably 10 minutes--WAAY easier than removing and replacing the flex plate that's already on there!

2- Replace the TC seal (part no 001 301 083 A for a >08/1970 gearbox (BJ0345498 – vw 001 301 103)).

It's probably not necessary to replace the TC seal unless it's leaking- I've had mine on there going on 6-7 years now-- I've removed the engine at least 4-5 times since then with no ill effects. But there's certainly no harm in replacing it if you want. And either seal will work, but yes apaprently it's better to get the later type with the spring around the INSIDE lip instead of the outside (I believe the part # is 001 301 083B.)

3- Before placing the TC, fill about half way with ATF (by putting it flat on the floor and fill until the ATF is approx. half way the hole).

This would be fine- just make sure there is some ATF in there before reinstalling-- and then make sure you fill up the ATF reservoir before running the engine again. Drive it a bit and check the tank level again- if it has dropped then some of the ATF has filled the torque converter, so just refill the tank to the proper level.

4- When sliding on the TC, align the TC with the two splines on the primary axle, just by turning with a little push. It must be all the way back in the TC housing. Fix TC until engine is placed

Correct- make absolutely sure that the converter is FULLY SEATED on the clutch support spline shaft. It MUST be all the way back- you might think it's all the way on there but wiggle/ jiggle it until you are sure you feel it slide all the way into place.

5- After placing engine: put rag in the hole so bolts can't drop in TC housing and turn engine unit TC and flexplate bolt hole align and fit TC bolt, turn 180 deg. and fit 2nd bolt, etc.

This is a good idea- try to wedge something into the bottom of the bell housing window to ensure the TC bolts do not fall down in there. You may also experience a difficult time getting the TC bolts started through the tab holes on the torque converter and into the threaded holes on the flex plate correctly-- take your time with this and make sure you aren't cross-threading them- it can be VERY easy to do this and if you so, the TC bolts won't tighten down to spec (obviously.) TC bolt spec is 18 ft/ lbs.

Also:
I've disassembled the TC housing to check the clutch plate (was fine).
       it took me a while to find the 2 nuts inside the differential housing
Is it correct that the TC housing hasn't a gasket on both sides (gearbox and engine side)?

All this sounds correct although I have never gone this far with mine.

Thanks in advance!  This is my first beetle and thus the first autostick, but I love him!

Good luck and enjoy!

Offline paulheger

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Re: Torque converter
« Reply #8 on: 05 April 2018, 22:39 »
Big thx!!!
1969 type 1 - 1500 conv - semi automatic

Offline sb001

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Re: Torque converter
« Reply #9 on: 06 April 2018, 00:17 »
One more thing I thought of concerning step 5-
Make sure you semi-tighten the engine bolts back into place first so that it "pulls" the flex plate up against the torque converter. What I usually do is get them semi-tight, this allows you to still be able to turn the engine without turning the TC to line up the bolt holes. If you get it TOO tight, where when you turn the engine to line up the holes, the TC spins with the engine, then you can reach through the window of the bell housing and spin the TC by hand using the splines on the back of it. Just FYI

Offline paulheger

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Re: Torque converter
« Reply #10 on: 06 April 2018, 08:31 »
Super!
Always nice to get the experience before trying, will do!

Had some troubles getting the TC housing in yesterday. For some reason the clutchplate didn't seem to get in.
It doesn't look like there is anything special. The clutch "puller / two fingers" will align automaticly I would guess, as long as its fitted somewhere close.

Did find an old topic which seems to match, so will try tonight.

Yeah, I have the clutch installed in the bellhousing complete. The next step is to attach it to the gearbox. I just removed this bellhousing from another gearbox. I can't get the two to attach correctly, and it seems nothing is stopping them. I get the two 'fingers' from clutch lined up in the depressions where they fit, but it just doesn't close right. Very silly.

****UPDATE**** - Got it figured out! You need to engage the pullers right as you're sliding the bellhousing on. Spin the servo arm to engage the pullers as you are mating the splines and the bellhousing just slides on like a glove. Beautiful. I just finished flushing the gerbox with kerosene and now I am ready to fill it back up with hypoid oil [treating it to some of the good stuff] and then reinstalling the gearbox. :D
1969 type 1 - 1500 conv - semi automatic

 

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