Poll

Which do you believe is the more reliable transmission setup?

Autostick
5 (55.6%)
4 speed
4 (44.4%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Author Topic: The autostick is a more reliable transmission than the 4 speed  (Read 283 times)

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Offline sb001

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This includes the whole system associated with either setup- so for the autostick, include the torque converter, ATF, vacuum parts, etc
For the 4 speed include the clutch pedal, cable, etc

Offline tmea

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An interesting but perhaps subjective question. Two ways to think about it objectively:
 
1. The requirements to go to production:
  A.  The system have no appreciable impact on performance compared to the MT.
  B. There be no comparative deviation from mean time between failures compared to the MT.

The AS platform met both requirements and went into production.

2. The obvious.. There are more parts and functions to the AS system therefore it will fail more often. This is an engineering fact compounded by a fluid under pressure system with numerous potential leak points and a vacum system with the same issue.

The key variable we do not know is in VWs analysis (mean time between failures) is time. Iíd guess the test/analysis period was months long. These cars are old now so I believe they are inherently less reliable in comparison unless owned/maintenances by folks like us.

MORE INTERESTING to me and, I have never seen this mentioned here or anywhere else are the cars for which the system was origionaly designed by F&S specifically, the Porsche 911 Sportmatic. This system was used by Porsche from 1968 to 1980 and enjoyed a good following and reputation. The vacum control valve, vacum servo and I believe the TC are identical between the Porsche  Sportmatic and Autostick.

Thatís my two cents.

Tom

Offline 68autobug

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Hi Tom,
Yes the Autostick and Sportomatic  are virtually the same. It was a joint venture between PORSCHE & VOLKSWAGEN by FISCHEL & SACHS...
Not that I have ever looked at what parts were interchangeable...


The clutch cable in the manual beetle... I did see for sale in the USA a few years ago, a company selling clutch cables with a lifetime guarantee... I believe this company just made & sold cables...  An accelerator cable that would last forever would be good.... lol.. 


but they wouldn't sell out of the USA... so I couldn't buy one...


LEE
« Last Edit: 08 May 2018, 06:45 by 68autobug »
-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug

Offline CarlIseminger

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If I remember correctly, the Sportomatic shared the engine's oil supply in the torque converter instead of Automatic Transmission Fluid.  This meant a much larger oil capacity and the need to be diligent about oil levels and changing.

Offline 68autobug

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    • My 1968 Autostick Beetle

That is odd, as the VW version must use DEXTRON ll ATF... not even other types of ATF, much less using any engine oil... so there  must have some huge differences in the actual torque converter etc., but maybe the vacuum & electrical parts were similar...


LEE


PS: the steel bracket that holds the rear axles with IRS rear suspension as Autosticks and then supers, was also used on some Porsches only instead of being steel it was made of alloy, the same part number was used by Porsche & Volkswagen...  could have been a 924 -944 or 928???
Guys racing Super beetles in Australia use the Porsche alloy part...  LEE
-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug

Offline tmea

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Iím going to look into Carlís point about the Porsche system. Doesnít make sense to me because: engine Oil runs considerably hotter than ATF in these systems; running combustion contaminated oil through the ATF system makes even less sense and, even more importantly in the stock setup with standard or dog house oil cooler, adding extra oil capacity is not effective. The rate of cooling is fixed by the surface area of the cooler and volume of air and oil driven through it. In the VW system (Porsche not dissimilar) the relationship between oil capacity, cooler heat transfer capacity and volume of oil driven through the cooler are pretty well balanced. That is why many who bolt on those extra sumps below the engine are frustrated to see their engine run hotter. The added oil capacity is retaining more heat than the cooler can transfer out of the system. Thermodynamics.. I am certain that it would work in theory but the added fluid would quickly overwhelm the stock cooling system in the VW.

Offline 68autobug

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Yes, I would like to see if Porsche actually used engine oil in their system, as it would have to be different to this system, that was supposedly a joint project between PORSCHE @ VOLKSWAGEN  by Fischel & Sachs..  The Autostick  system says You MUST use DEXRON ATF....
so what is different to the SPORTOMATIK Ö. that uses engine oil???? which does degrade over time...and must be changed... engine oil change??

LEE
-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug

Offline randydog

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I believe the better bite between the flywheel and 4 speed tranny with i.r.s. made the reinforcement of the floor in the original 68 wider autostick conversions applicable, but my theory is the bigger ball joints on the 69's made up for the narrower beetles rear end. A torsion bar on the karmann ghia frame for autostick trannys was a porsche modification maybe?

Offline 68autobug

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The weak part of the manual transmission.... is the clutch... slipping the clutch will wear the clutch plate out prematurely... in an autostick, You cannot slip the clutch, as the torque converter does all the work... so You can start off in ANY Gear... I have heard of a clutch plate out of an autostick being measured after 25 years of wear.  The New clutch plate and the old one measured virtually the same.... The autostick could have been made better with an extra gear, as LOW gear is very low.
Another higher gear would have been great to lower the engine revs at 110KMH or 60MPH..


LEE in Australia
-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug

 

anything