Author Topic: It starts, but doesnít want to shift into gear.  (Read 709 times)

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Offline rayar3

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It starts, but doesnít want to shift into gear.
« on: 07 December 2018, 21:50 »
Another AS followed me home. 1971 Super Beetle. I lucked out with my first one since it shifted without issue. This one grinds when I attempt to shift it while running. Wonít start in any gear, including reverse. When the engine is off, ignition ON, it shifts no problem and I can hear the solonoid doing its thing. Thereís pressure in the tank, verified when I pulled the hose off to change the far spark plug. Shifter adjustment? Any thoughts?
Ray

1971 Clementine Orange Super Beetle AS
1973 Marina Blue Beetle Sedan AS

Offline autonewbie

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Re: It starts, but doesnít want to shift into gear.
« Reply #1 on: 08 December 2018, 02:24 »
Pressure in the tank is good. The big question is- Is that pressure being transferred into the servo? If the pressure is getting to the servo, then is the servo in good enough shape to use that vacuum and make the shift?
First thing I would check is if there is a hole in the servo diaphram.  Place a good hose on the servo nipple and suck with your mouth. With the servo arm disconnected you should see the arm move. Next, can you move that arm with vacuum and then hold the arm in position by preventing the vacuum from leaving the servo. ( block the nipple with your tongue.) If you can't accomplish these servo motor tasks, then the servo is bad and needs a new diaphram.
Good Luck
Ken
When I  was 15 I wanted a Ghia....It only took me 47 years to get one!   1970 Karmann Ghia Autostick.

Offline rayar3

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Re: It starts, but doesnít want to shift into gear.
« Reply #2 on: 19 December 2018, 04:36 »
Okay, an unproductive update (and I wish I could find my Bentley manual):

The servo diaphragm is holding vacuum. Pull the arm out, block the inlet, it doesnít move. Glad I tested that after I removed the 3 bolts, so I left it while I troubleshoot further.

When I shift the car, I can hear the contacts working properly. When a helper (dad) shifts and my hand is on the solenoid, I can feel it click. With the car up on jacks, thereís no longer any pressure in the tank because I removed but the solonoid seems to be clicking. I also cleaned the solenoid contacts because there seemed to be an intermittent ground with my test light, which was resolved with a cleaning and new terminal end.

All the hoses are holding pressure, but theyíre old so Iím changing them out.

So while I dive into the archives here, how does the tank get pressure? Does the solinoid pump air into the tank? Does it ever need to be adjusted? Does the line connecting from the solenoid to the intake manifold suck the servo closed when you release the shifter? And is there a way to further test the solonoid? Should it be pushing air with just the ignition ON, car not running?
« Last Edit: 19 December 2018, 06:56 by rayar3 »
Ray

1971 Clementine Orange Super Beetle AS
1973 Marina Blue Beetle Sedan AS

Offline 68autobug

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Re: It starts, but doesnít want to shift into gear.
« Reply #3 on: 19 December 2018, 13:00 »
HI,
the vacuum tank gets vacuum from the large hose on the inlet manifold, and the control valve lets vacuum to the clutch servo, which lets You change gear...Now if You haven't done so already, You need to replace ALL the vacuum hoses large and small... The cotton covered hoses VW used can have many clacks in it but you cannot see them.... that is why I prefer using different types of hose... You can still buy the original VW hose...  These hoses weren't supposed to last over 40 years.... The points in the gearshifter only need a clean up, but I would replace the wire going to the gear shifter as it is really past its use by date too.... the PVC on mine was just falling off...    If Your hoses are leaking then the system just doesn't work....

Lee in Australia
-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug

Offline rayar3

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Re: It starts, but doesnít want to shift into gear.
« Reply #4 on: 19 December 2018, 15:04 »
Thanks Lee. Iím trying to source hose locally, otherwise Iíll have to wait for some to be mailed. I did test the hose, and it held pressure. Iím hoping it was just the intermittent ground to the control valve.
Ray

1971 Clementine Orange Super Beetle AS
1973 Marina Blue Beetle Sedan AS

Offline 68autobug

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Re: It starts, but doesnít want to shift into gear.
« Reply #5 on: 20 December 2018, 02:14 »
it only needs a small crack in any of those large hoses to stop the system from working...
The control valves are very well made and most are still working correctly...
Once all the hoses have been replaced, then You shouldn't have any problems..
I used a high pressure brake hose used on truck trailers for their air brakes. I have used 13mm ID & 12.7mm ID hose with out problems... So high pressure hose can usually be used.... as the walls are hard and will not suck in...


Lee in Australia
-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug

Offline rayar3

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Re: It starts, but doesnít want to shift into gear.
« Reply #6 on: 20 December 2018, 23:07 »
I went with 12.7mm hydraulic hose. It was a pain because it was very stiff, but itís doing the job. Still ground in gear today, so Iím still chasing gremlins. Iím going to call some local VW help because thereís a few other things that need sorting, too. The good thing is Iím in no rush, but itís been both frustrating and a learning experience.
Ray

1971 Clementine Orange Super Beetle AS
1973 Marina Blue Beetle Sedan AS

Offline sb001

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Re: It starts, but doesnít want to shift into gear.
« Reply #7 on: 21 December 2018, 05:50 »
rayar where are you located??
Have you checked the adjustment on your servo arm coming off the servo canister?:


There should be no more than 4mm distance between the edge of the adjuster sleeve closest to the canister, and the edge of the canister mounting bracket. Here's a crappy scanned image from my Haynes manual:



The upper right hand drawing shows the measurment points, if this is more than 4mm the clutch may not fully disengage and can cause grinding. You adjust this arm by loosening the locknut on the side of the adjuster sleeve closest to the pivot pin connecting the servo arm to the clutch arm. (This locknut is REVERSE THREADED so it's righrty loosey lefty tighty!) Then adjust the sleeve by screwing it in toward the canister and retighten the nut.
« Last Edit: 21 December 2018, 05:55 by sb001 »

Offline sb001

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Re: It starts, but doesnít want to shift into gear.
« Reply #8 on: 21 December 2018, 05:57 »
Something else I'd like to comment on from your first post-- you mention you can't start the car with the transmission in gear- this is CORRECT and how it should be, this is the purpose of your neutral safety switch to ensure you are only able to start the car in neutral, so it doesn't jump forward as it would try to do if you started it in gear.

Offline rayar3

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Re: It starts, but doesnít want to shift into gear.
« Reply #9 on: 22 December 2018, 07:41 »
The servo arm is the next thing on the list to check. I mentioned the neutral safety switch because it was functioning properly. This is when I wish I had a lift so I could troubleshoot a little easier! Iím in north central CT. Everything was very original about this car, so it was a surprise to me that it didnít go into gear when I changed the vacuum lines unless over time you have to readjust the servo arm.
Ray

1971 Clementine Orange Super Beetle AS
1973 Marina Blue Beetle Sedan AS

Offline sb001

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Re: It starts, but doesnít want to shift into gear.
« Reply #10 on: 23 December 2018, 07:54 »
The servo arm is the next thing on the list to check. I mentioned the neutral safety switch because it was functioning properly. This is when I wish I had a lift so I could troubleshoot a little easier! Iím in north central CT. Everything was very original about this car, so it was a surprise to me that it didnít go into gear when I changed the vacuum lines unless over time you have to readjust the servo arm.

You do have to readjust the servo arm over time, but it's usually due to clutch friction material wearing down and the clutch slipping as a result. If it's too far out of whack though it can cause the clutch not to engage properly or at all.
I'm almost 100% convinced this was the only thing wrong with my autostick years ago before I knew anything about diagnosing them, where it would continually slip out of Drive 1 back into neutral. I ended up paying a mechanic $800 to install a whole replacement tranny I had lying around. To this day I shake my head thinking it could have just been a simple adjustment...  :P

Offline 68autobug

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Re: It starts, but doesnít want to shift into gear.
« Reply #11 on: 28 December 2018, 12:10 »
What I recommend is, to adjust the clutch servo adjuster so you can select reverse without crunching... then it will go into all the other gears without any problems....   Have You checked that the clutch adjuster is moving as it should when you move the gear shifter forwards or backwards....   if it is moving, then it is pulling the clutch in.... [adjust the clutch using the adjuster about 1/4 to 1/2 a turn no more..]  make sure the small vacuum hose is attached to the control valve and the carburetor... if this hose is not connected then the clutch bearing will be pulled in but will not release it for approx 5-10 seconds....  so You would be able to select a gear but no drive for 5-10 seconds approx...  it doesn't sound like that is your problem... You can also adjust the control valve with the screw on top...  Does Your control valve click when you move the gear shifter??  One terminal on the control valve goes to the ignition power and the other goes to the gearshifter which grounds the control valve out.... so if You connected a wire to the control valve [not the power one] and to a ground the control valve should open the clutch so You can select any gear.... so long as that wire is attached...   I wouldn't recommend taking your car to any VW mechanic as all the VW trained mechanics on the autostick are no longer with us....  so any newer vw mechanics usually recommend changing to a manual gearbox as they have absolutely no idea on how an autostick works.... the clutch plates wear very little as they do NOT slip like a manual clutch plate, they are either in or out of gear in the autostick....  I remember one owner buying a new clutch plate and it measured identical to his old one....
Let us know how You go....
-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug

Offline rayar3

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Re: It starts, but doesnít want to shift into gear.
« Reply #12 on: 21 March 2019, 04:32 »
Itís been a cold winter, but today warmed up enough to roll the car out, start it, and start back with the diagnostics. The last thing I changed was the dvda can for the tune up so I reconnected the vac lines. I also added 5 gallons of fresh gas (non-ethonol). Got it started, ran rough until the fresh gas took hold. Idle picked up nicely where the old broken vac can left a lag and a low, lumpy idle. Then, PFM. Slipped smoothly into gears. All of them. Like it was happy spring had arrived. Drove it up and down the street with minimal brakes. I was too excited! Unchained Melody was on the Sapphire AM radio. Thank you, Patrick Swayze.

P.F.M.

Iíll take it as a win.
Ray

1971 Clementine Orange Super Beetle AS
1973 Marina Blue Beetle Sedan AS

Offline 68autobug

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Re: It starts, but doesnít want to shift into gear.
« Reply #13 on: 24 March 2019, 06:21 »
GREAT NEWS.... I hope Your luck continues.... 

... 36C degrees here today maybe the last of the Very HOT weather....  fingers crossed..
     [/size]Lee  68AutoBug .[/color]
-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug