Author Topic: desperately seeking a clutch plate  (Read 221 times)

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Offline Speedsterautoshift

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desperately seeking a clutch plate
« on: 26 January 2019, 11:30 »
Hi all, our car is all up together and raring to go except the clutch plate have given up the ghost.

Conventional channels are proving impossible and no garage is willing to take the old plate out then wait a week while the old one gets relined.

So even a plate with worn friction faces would be ok as we could get it relined.

Although we would prefer one with a fair amount of wear left in it.

We are in the uk but that doesn't mean we cannot wire the money to you somehow.

PLEASE give us a message.
Regards
John


Offline 68autobug

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Re: desperately seeking a clutch plate
« Reply #1 on: 27 January 2019, 10:38 »
Hi,
Yes finding a new Autostick clutch plate can be difficult or impossible...  and yes, the best way is to reline the  clutch plate....  so, a used plate is needed to be relined... there must be one somewhere....
I can only remember a guy in the US who found a new one, but it measured exactly the same as His old one... as they do not wear like a manual clutch does, as the torque converter helps too... The clutch is either IN or OUT so virtually no slipping unless it is adjusted incorrectly....

best of luck...

Lee in Australia...

-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug

Offline Raymond73

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Re: desperately seeking a clutch plate
« Reply #2 on: 28 January 2019, 23:36 »
This might be more than you are looking to spend (especially with shipping), but EVWparts looks like they have them.

https://www.evwparts.com/vwparts/AutostickTrans/001141031A-Rebuilt.html

https://www.evwparts.com/vwparts/AutostickTrans/001141031A.html
'70 AS, 30 PICT-3

Offline 68autobug

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Re: desperately seeking a clutch plate
« Reply #3 on: 29 January 2019, 08:02 »
There has to be one somewhere John, as many have been wrecked & off the road, plus some have been transformed into Manual cars..  Is it the clutch plate as shown worn out???? or is it the pressure plate that has lost its tension????   as I only know of one owner who bought a new clutch plate only to find it was identical to the used one He had... they shouldn't wear out unless they have done a lot of miles.... &  has been slipping... which they shouldn't be doing... usually in or out...
You should be able to find someone to take the old plate out....  then You can get it refaced at a clutch/brake repairer... I believe the linings are identical to the manual beetle... [one of them]..?
Don't forget to replace the torque converter seal...

LEE  in Australia

-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug

Offline The Keszthely Kid

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Re: desperately seeking a clutch plate
« Reply #4 on: 29 January 2019, 19:26 »
Hola Amigo's,

I can recommend Vintage Car Parts https://www.vintagecarparts.de/liste.php?set_shop=1&set_wg=12&set_markwg=0;84;12

Pricey but what value do you put on quality and peace of mind??
Semi-Automatic Karmann Ghia's need love too.
Especially the '72 to '74 Fatties

Offline Speedsterautoshift

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Re: desperately seeking a clutch plate
« Reply #5 on: 31 January 2019, 21:37 »
Hi All,

thanks ever so much for the replies.
Currently a local garage, who we normally only go to for MOTs (roadworthiness testing in the UK) has just struggled the engine and box out of our Speedster.  They really did have trouble doing this.

They initially tried to separate the box from the engine and rang me to ask me about a bolt, about 2 o'clock, looking towards the engine from under the car.  As far as they could tell, the bolt head was tight to the bell housing/torque converter and bits of the box seemed to be there to make it impossible to undo it as a socket would not go on, unlike the other 3 bolts. Even an open ended spanner was not really going to do it.  So I advised them to take the engine and box out together.

So, once everything was disconnected it still took them 2 hours to do this, but it is now on the floor and they still cannot see an obvious way to get the bolt undone.  Of course we can all see brutal ways of doing it, such as welding another nut to the head of the bolt, or cutting away the tiny offending part of the torque converter cover/bellhousing.

So we still don't know what the cause of the problem is.

So I would be enormously grateful if anyone knows anything about this odd bolt and the way in which its head is being deliberately prevented from being removed in any normal way.  Sorry I cannot attach a pic as I didn't take a camera with me when I went to the garage today.

As for the clutch plate, the German place looks good, otherwise there is a company in the UK, Safetek, who say they will reline it.

I take on board all the points made by some of you that it is unlikely to have worn.

Also now worrying about where to get the gasket from that one of you mentioned.  It is being sold so I may just ask them to seal it with some mastic, that black stuff that is now used officially for gaskets but whose name I have forgotten for the moment.

Anyway, thanks again and I'll keep you posted.

Looking forward to reading from you again.

John

Offline Speedsterautoshift

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Re: desperately seeking a clutch plate
« Reply #6 on: 01 February 2019, 15:57 »
WOWEEEE!

You guys will not believe this. Finally got the box separated from the engine and the clutch plate out.

Ordinary all makes garage with an interest in American cars and unusual cars, (Google Andy Saunders, really cool guy).

ANYWAY, as couldn't easily find a new or recon clutchplate, am sending it off to a company in Yorkshire, UK, who will reline it for 26 +Vat and carriage.

26!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   I cannot believe it!!!

EVWparts want $150 + 75 core charge, for rebuilt or $250 for new!!!  Vintagecarparts.de want 198 exchange.

So, you can see whay I am doing what I am doing.

Now just need to source a seal for the input shaft to the gearbox to stop the ATF leak.

I'll keep you posted, but seriously guys, if you have the same problem, this is the way to go!



I am never paying for a replacement clutch plate ever again.

Offline sb001

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Re: desperately seeking a clutch plate
« Reply #7 on: 14 February 2019, 16:02 »
Hi speedster,
glad to hear you found a soruce that will reline your clutch plate for cheap!
As for the torque converter seal VWHeritage in the UK has them. They have two based on year model:

https://www.vwheritage.com/001301083-oil-seal-for-the-transmission-shaft-on-a-automatic-gearbox-vw-spare

https://www.vwheritage.com/001301083b-oil-seal-for-the-transmission-shaft-on-a-automatic-gearbox-vw-spare

Hope this helps


Offline Speedsterautoshift

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Re: desperately seeking a clutch plate
« Reply #8 on: 06 March 2019, 15:52 »
Hi All,
tempted to say "If it seems too cheap it probably is". The clutch returned really quickly relined. I gave it to the garage to fit and, despite everything we have done, it just don't fit.  When they went to bolt up the pressure plate, the bolts had become too short, so obviously they used longer bolts to pull it into a position where the proper one could be fitted. But this should not have been necessary, and was the first indication of a problem.
When they put it all back together the clutch wouldn't work. Servo stripped and whole system checked through, nothing wrong.  So the arm that actuates the clutch was actuated physically with a pry bar while someone else tried to move the gears into gear, no luck.

The clutch has been relined too thick. So I rang the reliners and they admitted that they were not sure what thickness it should be so they relined it to what seemed to them to be correct. Obviously not! They also explained that a clutch only has to be .1 of a mm too thick to be a problem, as the aim is to release the clutch from the flywheel by just enough to free it.

So we are still desperate for a clutch plate of the correct dimensions, a second hand one with some wear in it would be fine, or, if anyone knows the correct thickness of the linings we would be grateful for the information so that we can get the plate machined back to the correct thickness.

So sad, and expensive in the long run.

John

Offline Speedsterautoshift

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Re: desperately seeking a clutch plate
« Reply #9 on: 07 March 2019, 14:59 »
Further to this, after days of research on the internet, it is obvious that no supplier will be forthcoming with the thickness of the replacement friction material.  They all want to flog you their clutch plate at 200 roughly, plus carriage.

After long discussions with and research by the company that did the reline, it looks as if there is unlikely to be anything wrong with the plate. The same plate is apparently used in a Porsche and having found this out they could look into the thickness of the stuff on this one, and it turned out to be even thicker, 3.5 mill instead of the 3.2 mill they fitted. Also, the images I have managed to find show the rivets being quite deep.

So I have come to the conclusion that there has been a reassembly error rather than anything else.  Apparently it has happened before.

So that is where we are.  I have agreed with the garage that I will be there when they take out the gearbox, clutch and torque converter. So I hope that something will become obvious.  But what does appear obvious is that if the mechanic could not put the pressure plate back on and tighten up the bolts without first using longer bolts to get it to where the normal length bolts will work, then something has been wrongly assembled.

We shall see.

Offline volkenstein

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Re: desperately seeking a clutch plate
« Reply #10 on: 08 March 2019, 09:10 »
Speed,
          I got one IIRC, good cond etc blah blah - but definitely S/H. I can hook you up next week after I have gone and cleared my shed way down south.
 $50 AUS + postage to send it to the UK?

HTH
Volkenstein
'71 RHD A-S Super - "Klaus"

Offline Speedsterautoshift

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Re: desperately seeking a clutch plate
« Reply #11 on: 15 March 2019, 14:25 »
Volkenstein

we have been communicating on the other, technical, forum about this.  Could you do ma a favour and measure the one you have?  And post an image of the EDGE of it? I know there are two types and mine is the one made up of a series of leaves with springs in between.  The actual thickness of the friction material is what is in question.

If we were at a different stage with all this I might well have bought yours, in fact I still may, if all else over here in Pm land goes wrong
Regards
John

Offline Speedsterautoshift

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Re: desperately seeking a clutch plate
« Reply #12 on: 15 March 2019, 17:26 »
Here is an image of the edge of mine, just taken off the car, far too thick at 9.14 uncompressed, with 3.2 mm of friction material.
Hope the house move is going ok.

regards
John

Offline Speedsterautoshift

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Re: desperately seeking a clutch plate
« Reply #13 on: 15 March 2019, 23:21 »
I think my description of the clutch as having leaves with "springs in between" is not entirely accurate. Each section is in fact made up of two 1 mm leaves of what must be spring steel, as when relaxed, they open up a tiny bit, to separate the two leaves to which the friction material is riveted. This tiny airgap closes up each time the clutch engages. As we now know that there are other clutches in these vehicles with solid plate clutches, this little air gap cannot be too important, but it just makes it a pain when measuring the things.

Offline Speedsterautoshift

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Re: desperately seeking a clutch plate
« Reply #14 on: 16 March 2019, 10:51 »
Hi Volksman,
If you have been following my other topic, you'll have seen by now that I now know that the clutch plate is in fact too thick.  So it is going back to the company that relined it for machining back to 2.5 mm per side, unless I hear soon that someone like yourself has been able to measure the thickness of the friction material on a clutch like mine

But it would still be good if you could measure the edge of the material, you can just get the tip of a calliper into the space to measure the thickness.

Thanks ever so much for all the info and advice, it is really appreciated and without guys like you life in this filed would be much harder.
regards
John