Author Topic: Amazing Auto/Stick story  (Read 4543 times)

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Offline singlecab61

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Amazing Auto/Stick story
« on: 19 May 2009, 07:49 »
Hello vwar!

     My name is Evan. I am new to this forum. I Have already talked to one of you by thesamba screen name of BOOKWUS, who has already helped me out a ton on thesamba. I was given a 1969 Auto-Stick bug in February of this year. I am the second owner. The original owners died, their daughter is a good friend of ours and gave me the bug because she did not want to deal with selling it.








A little rough, but hey, it was free!!!!
1956 Rag Top Oval (Dad's)
1961 Single Cab (Mine)
1961 Single Cab (Lil Bro's)
1969 Auto-Stick Bug (Mine)

"If it has wheels or a motor, IT NEEDS MORE POWER!"-Tim Allen.

Offline singlecab61

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Re: Amazing Auto/Stick story
« Reply #1 on: 19 May 2009, 08:17 »
Yes it ''ran''. When I mean ''ran'' I mean it fired up and ran fairly smooth on all 4, on 9 year old gas, all gears worked, and made some interesting rattling noises under load. I pulled the engine and disassembled. To start with, all, yes I said all case half bolts and nuts were finger tight. Here is what I found inside. Here are the pics and the descriptions of them under each.


Someone did not install the rear breast plate correctly.


Inside of it was pretty caked with sludge the consistancy of cold molasses and asphalt.


Better shot of the sludge.


I was actually able to chip the crap off of the cam gear with a screwdriver after I removed the cam.


This is the worst side center main bearing. The copper was flaking off!! Only steel was left!


Here is the most amazing part of all!! This is the main journal the center bearing in the above pic came out of. Yes it is cracked all the way though!!


Better shot of the Main journal.


Cam bearing in the same condition as the main bearing.


Here is the culprit. NO MAINTENANCE!!!!!!!


AGAIN!!! NO MAINTENANCE!!!


Strange marks on the pistons you might say?


Marks look familiar??? Yes, the pistons were hitting the heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The same case half with the cracked main journal had a cracked bell housing.


The other side had no cracks. BUT....The crankshaft was moving around so much in the case, the flex-plate was hitting the case bell housing.

As I said before, it ran fine, but made some high pitched rattling noises, and on 9 year old gas mind you!!!
« Last Edit: 19 May 2009, 09:12 by singlecab61 »
1956 Rag Top Oval (Dad's)
1961 Single Cab (Mine)
1961 Single Cab (Lil Bro's)
1969 Auto-Stick Bug (Mine)

"If it has wheels or a motor, IT NEEDS MORE POWER!"-Tim Allen.

Offline singlecab61

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Re: Amazing Auto/Stick story
« Reply #2 on: 19 May 2009, 09:04 »
Well, I have since built a 1641cc with dual Kadrons. I got everything installed and the engine running. I built a custom oil pump for the new engine. It is a 30mm Melling steel early bug high volume pump. I had the pump machined down to stock dimensions and rebuilt the auto-stick part. This is my personal High Performance version of the pump. I am still testing it, so far so good.

I had to move both the control valve and the ATF reservoir so the dual carbs would fit. The control valve is now on the left side under the firewall, and the ATF reservoir is now behind the rear seat on the right side. I had a very strange issue with the transmission after I got the new engine running. I was unable to shift into any gear even when the clutch was disengaged with the engine running. with the engine off, I couls shift no problem. The Clutch servo was working but the clutch was still not disengaging. After much consulting with BOOKWUS on thesamba. I came to the unfortunate realization that I would now have to remove the engine and disassemble the tranny, even though it worked just fine with the blown engine. Makes no sense, but that was the only answer. Or was it???????????

I decided to try something a little crazy. I jacked up the back of the car so the rear wheels could spin freely. I bypassed the neutral safety and started the engine with the transmission in 1st (mid range). I revved the engine to around 2500 RPM. With the engine held at 2500 RPM I held the shifter to disengage the clutch and very briefly stomped the brakes. The tranny gave an earshattering bang and the clutch broke loose!!! Yes this was probably bad for the tranny, but it did what I wanted it to do and that was break loose the clutch without having to disassemble the tranny. It worked!!!

This is a LAST RESORT FIX if you have this issue and have exhausted all other possibilities. I though you all might want to hear about if noone has ever done this. BOOKWUS said you all might get a kick out of it.

Yes now the tranny works and the car drive great with the dual carbs. I just need to do some adjusting. The tranny bangs into gear when at a dead stop. the Bently book said the control valve can be adjusted to fix this. There is 2 adjusting screws on the control valve, which one is the one that needs and adjustment. The Bently book said to adjust the reducing valve screw but does not show which adjusting screw is the reducing valve screw. I am going to assume that it is not the one on behind the big diaphram looking thing. Could one of you be so kind as to send me a pic of the correct screw to adjust?

I did give the control valve its venturi vacuum signal. It shifts perfect while driving, just the shifs at a dead stop are harsh.

Thank you!   
1956 Rag Top Oval (Dad's)
1961 Single Cab (Mine)
1961 Single Cab (Lil Bro's)
1969 Auto-Stick Bug (Mine)

"If it has wheels or a motor, IT NEEDS MORE POWER!"-Tim Allen.

Offline Bookwus

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Re: Amazing Auto/Stick story
« Reply #3 on: 19 May 2009, 16:44 »
Hiya Evan,

Glad to see you made it to the website.  And with pictures!  Good start.

Here's the adjustment screw atop the control valve.................



It lives just under that plastic cap (which may or may not be there on your car).

But do be advised ............your symptoms really sound like you have the wrong vacuum signal from your carbs.  If that is the case, adjusting the control will have little effect on the abrupt shifting action.
Mike

1970 AS Bug

Offline singlecab61

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Re: Amazing Auto/Stick story
« Reply #4 on: 19 May 2009, 20:58 »
Thank you very much for the Pic and info. I had to install my own vacuum signal to the control valve for the shift characteristics. I am pretty sure I got the correct placement for the signal. I have it in roughly the same spot in the veturi as the stock single 30 pict carb. But you never know. The bigger carbs may give me the wrong signal (too much vacuum). Shift on the fly is perfect, only from a dead stop from neutral into gear or reverse to forward (or vise versa) is the hard shift. A slightly hard shift doesn't bother mee too much but when it hits hard enough that it feels like it wants to break a motor mount, that is where I draw the line at hard shifts. I also have never driven a stock, good running, Auto-Stick to see what the shift should feel like. I assume it should be like any other automatic vehicle in the world.   8)
1956 Rag Top Oval (Dad's)
1961 Single Cab (Mine)
1961 Single Cab (Lil Bro's)
1969 Auto-Stick Bug (Mine)

"If it has wheels or a motor, IT NEEDS MORE POWER!"-Tim Allen.

Offline Bookwus

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Re: Amazing Auto/Stick story
« Reply #5 on: 19 May 2009, 21:07 »
Hiya Evan'

Shift on the fly is perfect, only from a dead stop from neutral into gear or reverse to forward (or vise versa) is the hard shift.

Yep, those are the exact symptoms of too much vacuum to the control valve.

You might want to tweak that control valve adjustment screw and see if you can moderate the shift action at a stop without making it too slow on the fly.  If you have little to no luck with that approach then you'll want to investigate that the strength of that vacuum signal.
Mike

1970 AS Bug

Offline singlecab61

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Re: Amazing Auto/Stick story
« Reply #6 on: 19 May 2009, 22:43 »
Will do. The highest vacuum signal I am able to achieve from the small line is around 2-3in vacuum max. When I shift at a dead stop, the small line has no vacuum. From what I am understanding with the Bently manual's pictures, I have the correct amount of vacuum. Is 2-3in vacuum too much? I will try the adjustment first and see what happens.

Thanks again!
1956 Rag Top Oval (Dad's)
1961 Single Cab (Mine)
1961 Single Cab (Lil Bro's)
1969 Auto-Stick Bug (Mine)

"If it has wheels or a motor, IT NEEDS MORE POWER!"-Tim Allen.

Offline volkenstein

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Re: Amazing Auto/Stick story
« Reply #7 on: 20 May 2009, 06:51 »
Evan,
       5-6 In/HG max with the throttle open, 0 or close to it when the throttle is off.

HTH
Volkenstein
'71 RHD A-S Super - "Klaus"

Offline singlecab61

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Re: Amazing Auto/Stick story
« Reply #8 on: 21 May 2009, 03:44 »
I adjusted the control valve, the shifting slightly improved (only 1/2 turn clockwise). Unfortunately, the control valve started to act up. 90% of the time it shifts fine. The other 10% it seems like the valve is sticking and will take about 10 seconds for the clutch to fully engage. It kinda slides into gear, only at a dead stop. I set the adjustment back to the setting it was at before I messed with it, the shifting got harder again but the slow engagement is still there about 10% of the time. Does it sound like the control valve?
1956 Rag Top Oval (Dad's)
1961 Single Cab (Mine)
1961 Single Cab (Lil Bro's)
1969 Auto-Stick Bug (Mine)

"If it has wheels or a motor, IT NEEDS MORE POWER!"-Tim Allen.

Offline volkenstein

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Re: Amazing Auto/Stick story
« Reply #9 on: 21 May 2009, 13:37 »
Evan,
       Sounds like a mix to me. Can you post up a shot of your Kad set-up? In the old forum section I have a little spiel - "your control valve unplugged" which get's up close and personal with one. Yours looks heaps better than that one I rescued (mostly...). The oddity about 10% playing up is a bit of a headscratcher...I'd start with making sure the electrics from the gearstick back to the CV are pristine. Eliminate that and then you're only faced with vacuum woes which are a bit simpler IMHO.

With re-locating the CV..what did you do about the hosing?


Regards
Volkenstein
'71 RHD A-S Super - "Klaus"

Offline singlecab61

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Re: Amazing Auto/Stick story
« Reply #10 on: 22 May 2009, 03:25 »
All new hosing for the control valve. Heavy duty vacuum grade hose for just about everything. The parts that are not heavy vacuum line is -6AN hard and stainless line from the carb equalizer line. As far as the picture, well, lets just say, that's easier said than done. The way I mounted the CV and ran all the lines from the carbs back is pretty hidden. I will definitely try to get some clear shots for you though.

Here is my next question. When I was trying to figure out the seized clutch issue with BOOKWUS, I moved the clutch adjustment rod in every position possible. The clutch is no where near the original adjustment. My question to you is this:

       Will a poorly adjusted clutch cause harsh engagement? IMHO, I say yes, But that's just me.

Next:

       I have tried valiantly to understand the ''checking clutch freeplay'' and ''clutch adjustment'' procedure and I still don't understand it! I'm sure it's simple and I am most likely over-thinking it. I would like to know (in preschool level understanding) how to get a basic clutch adjustment starting point. ASSUME the clutch servo adjustment sleeve broke, I now have no clue where to set the clutch initial adjustment because the original position was lost when the the sleeve broke. I now need to know where to set the initial clutch adjustment. With this initial adjustment now set, I need to know how to correctly adjust the clutch from there (also so that a preschooler would understand).

The repair manual pictures are pretty vague. Where is the directions getting the 4MM checkpoint from? I see it in the picture, but I am not understanding it. Do I pull the servo rod out and measure?, Do I measure it at rest position? Where is the 4MM measured from? The bottom of the adjuster sleeve to the servo bracket like the picture shows? Do I measure from where the adjuster sleeve crimp is to the servo bracket? No matter were I measure and at any adjustment position, I will not get 4MM. I know that 4MM or more means the clutch needs adjusting. I have no problem If someone wants to call me, in fact I would almost prefer it! My cell number is 925-586-6055, my name is Evan, I am in California.

Is any going to be at the Sacramento, CA BUG-O-RAMA this weekend? I will be there with my AS. I will be with NORCAL AIRCOOLED GROUP inside the raceway. If anyone going out there would not mind giving me a hand, I would greatly appreciate it, I will have my phone with me.

I want to correctly adjust the clutch before I start messing with the fine adjustments if you all know what I mean.
1956 Rag Top Oval (Dad's)
1961 Single Cab (Mine)
1961 Single Cab (Lil Bro's)
1969 Auto-Stick Bug (Mine)

"If it has wheels or a motor, IT NEEDS MORE POWER!"-Tim Allen.

Offline Willyb

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Re: Amazing Auto/Stick story
« Reply #11 on: 10 June 2018, 17:42 »
Did you ever get it explained in preschool terms? If so share it with me.

Offline 68autobug

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Re: Amazing Auto/Stick story
« Reply #12 on: 22 June 2018, 12:22 »

Well, when restoring My 68 Beetle after totally pulling it apart...  I had also taken off the clutch arm off the top of the gearbox..  I found that by adjusting the clutch so You can place it into REVERSE without crunching is the correct spot... I don't go any further than that.  I did make up two of the special measuring tools which I found hopeless..... My other problem was I was trying to push the clutch bearing in like a manual, but it gets PULLED in,  Once I found that out it was fairly easy to get it all going.  Changing carburetors can be tricky with the vacuum going to the control valve... it needs to be be correct...  I need to get a vacuum gauge...lol.


LEE in Australia



-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug