Author Topic: How Does An Autostick Work?  (Read 9662 times)

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Offline kimbill

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How Does An Autostick Work?
« on: 08 October 2009, 18:05 »


My search did not yield an answer …..As a new autostick owner, I’ve wondered, “What is going on back there?" … ;D.  It would be interesting to know the sequence of operation.  In other words, when I move the shift lever, the _____ is actuated, which intern causes the _____ to ______, then the _____ ……  Basically, how does the converter, servo, control valve, carburetor, vacuum lines, oil pump, and other components interact in each shift cycle? ….. If the subject has been covered, please steer me to it.

Bill
‘71 Ghia


Offline SpyCarHippie

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Re: How Does An Autostick Work?
« Reply #1 on: 08 October 2009, 18:15 »
great question. I'm beginning to understand the system but it'd be cool if one of the experts laid it out for us newbies.

Dave
Dave

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Offline kimbill

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Re: How Does An Autostick Work?
« Reply #2 on: 08 October 2009, 22:40 »
SpyCarHippie (Dave):..... I think I found where we newbies can learn about the operation of an autostick, and other good bits of info ..... Click on "Technical", and notice the many topics that can opened, including "How It Works"....... Our question is probably answered there -- at least it's a good start for newbies..

Bill

Offline volkenstein

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Re: How Does An Autostick Work?
« Reply #3 on: 09 October 2009, 01:29 »
IIRC the blue bentley has some very pretty colour diags you could look at. www.stickshift.de is where I pinched mine from and the TC is no different in function to any old TC from any other make of car.

HTH
Volkenstein
'71 RHD A-S Super - "Klaus"

Offline 68autobug

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Re: How Does An Autostick Work?
« Reply #4 on: 09 October 2009, 17:21 »

Hi Bill,

I can answer Your question , but haven't gotten time to do it all at the present time [220am local time.. lol]

knowing just how it works , will amaze you even more when you move the gearlever ... :D

all those things happening at once...  and many of these are over 40 years old and are still going great...

cheers from Australia

Lee




http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug





My search did not yield an answer …..As a new autostick owner, I’ve wondered, “What is going on back there?" … ;D.  It would be interesting to know the sequence of operation.
In other words, when I move the shift lever, -- this happens..
 the points at the bottom of the lever is closed [actuated,] which intern [electrically] causes the control valve to activate the clutch servo, where vacuum from the vacuum tank then operates the clutch for less than a second , while you move to another gear. The engine is pumping Automatic Transmission Fluid all the time the engine is going. Once You release the gearshifter, the torque converter operates thru the clutch into the gearbox/transaxle and drives the wheels.

The engine is NOT directly coupled to the Gearbox...
The Engine pumps ATF to the torque converter - and the Torque converter Drives the gearbox..
When the engine is going , vacuum is taken from the inlet manifold thru the control valve to the vacuum tank..
the small vacuum hose going from the carby to the control valve controls the time the control valve opens and closes vacuum to the clutch servo.. [mine came off one day.. and it took about 3-4 seconds for the clutch servo to work]
which is a long time when You have just pulled onto a major highway... lol 
the outside of the torque converter is bolted to the flexplate which is connected to the engine..
the ring gear for the starter motor is on the outer edge of the torque converter..


The engine does NOT have a flywheel like manual cars. [flexplate instead]
 [getting too complicated for Me at this time of the morning Bill.. lol]

That will keep you occupied for a few minutes... lol    LEE

I will continue the story later... lol LEE

 ……  Basically, how does the converter, servo, control valve, carburetor, vacuum lines, ATF pump, and other components interact in each shift cycle? …..
If the subject has been covered, please steer me to it.

Bill
‘71 Ghia


« Last Edit: 10 October 2009, 14:24 by 68autobug »
-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug

Offline volkenstein

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Re: How Does An Autostick Work?
« Reply #5 on: 10 October 2009, 13:35 »
Ladz,
      In a galaxy far, far away.....

sorry, It was a dark and stormy night....

The explanation really does need the pretty pictures, also a little about what happens when you start the car (Neutral Safety Switch etc) as the engine creates vacuum in the vac tank until the flapper valve in the CV closes when vacuum is more or less equalised between the engine and vac tank. That's why you can shift a couple of times after you've stopped the engine.

The clutch and TC relationship is a little strange compared to fully auto cars and in fact when you think about it....why did VW go with this? Maybe sheer economics?
The Saxomat was a proven unit, F & S developed components for it and F & S supplied other components to VW. Who knows? Full Autos (non vw) were around before '68! It would be an interesting read!

Maybe something for one of the forums or to replace the "How it works" write up?

Regards
Sean
   
'71 RHD A-S Super - "Klaus"

Offline 68autobug

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Re: How Does An Autostick Work?
« Reply #6 on: 10 October 2009, 14:10 »
Hi folks and Sean,

I believe the Autostick was developed for PORSCHE 911 [6 cyls] or 912s [4 cyls]
for the US market.. by Fischel & Sachs..
and VW did have very close ties with Porsche.. [and Fischel & Sachs]

the type 3 fully automatic won't fit between the rear chassis horns on type 1 chassis.
and I suppose changing the rear horns would have been a major modification..
then again the beetle was an inexpensive car.. and VW didn't like Major changes..

I don't know much about the saxomat..
I believe it was very similar to the autostick but without the torque converter??

these are My thoughts...

cheers

LEE




 

[/glow]




Ladz,
      In a galaxy far, far away.....

sorry, It was a dark and stormy night....

The explanation really does need the pretty pictures, also a little about what happens when you start the car (Neutral Safety Switch etc) as the engine creates vacuum in the vac tank until the flapper valve in the CV closes when vacuum is more or less equalised between the engine and vac tank. That's why you can shift a couple of times after you've stopped the engine.

The clutch and TC relationship is a little strange compared to fully auto cars and in fact when you think about it....why did VW go with this? Maybe sheer economics?
The Saxomat was a proven unit, F & S developed components for it and F & S supplied other components to VW. Who knows? Full Autos (non vw) were around before '68! It would be an interesting read!

Maybe something for one of the forums or to replace the "How it works" write up?

Regards
Sean
   
-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug

Offline Bookwus

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Re: How Does An Autostick Work?
« Reply #7 on: 10 October 2009, 15:25 »
Hiya All,

I've done a bit of reading about the development of the AutoStick.

The clutch and shifting components were all developed by Fichtel & Sachs in the middle 50s.  That's right...........a full ten years before these same components showed up in a Volkswagen.  What's more, F&S developed these components to be used in a Mercedes Benz.  And that is where they first showed up in 1958.

VW was interested in adapting this system to their vehicles but the propietary deal worked out between MB and F&S ruled out the AutoStick.  So VW went with another piece of F&S technology, the Saxomatic transmission system.  This was marketed in Europe to rather mixed reviews.  Although not a great success in terms of marketing the Saxomat did allow VW to see possibilities in automatic transmissions and decided to commission one for their new Type 3.

In the meantime, MB had grown out of the F&S components and they became available for use at VW.  VW, now interested in automatics (and variants thereof) was also facing another problem..............  they were starting to lose sales to Japanese imports featuring automatic transmissions.  So, they hopped on the F&S bandwagon and went with the AutoStick which they could easily fit into the existing Beetle pan and bodywork.  Other makers such as Opel and NSU also had bought into the F&S set-up, so what we know as the VW AutoStick is hardly limited to VW alone.

The Sportamatic transmission was developed for Porsche by F&S.  I'm not too sure of its pedigree.  Looks like I'll have to do some more reading!
Mike

1970 AS Bug

Offline autonewbie

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Re: How Does An Autostick Work?
« Reply #8 on: 10 October 2009, 18:44 »
Thanks Bookwus, that is interesting stuff. I really enjoy reading about the history of these aircooled cars. From what you have described, I am guessing that other vintage cars might have interchangeable auto stick parts with our VW's. The downside is probably none of those cars were sold in the same quantities as the VW's so they really won't add to our modern day stockpile of available used parts.
When I  was 15 I wanted a Ghia....It only took me 47 years to get one!   1970 Karmann Ghia Autostick.

Offline SpyCarHippie

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Re: How Does An Autostick Work?
« Reply #9 on: 11 October 2009, 03:22 »
Great stuff Gents'. Keep it coming.
Dave

One Problem at a Time

Offline Bookwus

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Re: How Does An Autostick Work?
« Reply #10 on: 11 October 2009, 05:00 »
Hiya auto,

From what you have described, I am guessing that other vintage cars might have interchangeable auto stick parts with our VW's.

That is the case.  We have had a person tune in here at VWAR with an other-than-VW car.  Not too very long ago we had a fellow from Texas tring to get his NSU up and going.  I wonder whatever happened with his project.
Mike

1970 AS Bug

Offline kimbill

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Re: How Does An Autostick Work?
« Reply #11 on: 11 October 2009, 05:20 »
Gentlemen, thank you very very much for the tutorial....... This is a terrific group -- lots of knowledgable folks.  With your help, I expect to keep our autostick alive, and well, for years.

"Remember, if you throw enough money at it, you can make water run uphill (or fix your VW)."


Bill

Offline Bookwus

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Re: How Does An Autostick Work?
« Reply #12 on: 11 October 2009, 06:32 »
Hiya Bill,

"Remember, if you throw enough money at it, you can make water run uphill (or fix your VW)."

But not both!   ;)
Mike

1970 AS Bug

Offline 68autobug

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Re: How Does An Autostick Work?
« Reply #13 on: 11 October 2009, 14:42 »

Hi

There seems to be many VW autosticks in the US still on the road
and probably in junk yards...  the worst part is if they end up at a car wrecker who doesn't know
they are "special" and junks them...
any other makes like NSU etc would be very rare these days..

Best to keep Your eyes open for spares...

cheers

LEE




[/glow]
Thanks Bookwus,
 that is interesting stuff. I really enjoy reading about the history of these aircooled cars.
From what you have described, I am guessing that other vintage cars might have interchangeable auto stick parts with our VW's. The downside is probably none of those cars were sold in the same quantities as the VW's so they really won't add to our modern day stockpile of available used parts.

-- Helping keep Autostick beetles on the road --
   -1968 Silver metallic 1600 single port Beetle - with BOSCH  SVDA and new BROSOL H30/31 carburetor with GENIE Extractor exhaust system with a quiet thunderbird muffler

http://photobucket.com/68autobug

 

anything