Distributor strip and re-assembly - 113 905 205AH

[volkenstein]

All,
    I've mentioned in a few posts that I have got a 205AH off TheSamba for my '71 and "waiting to fit it". That's actually waiting to go through it and THEN put it on. So moving right along, a pic first with explanations.

Here's most of it stripped out :



Before I hook into disassembly a few things I do first are:
. Remove the cap & rotor
. Check that there is a felt wick under the rotor
. Twist on the advance mechanism to see whether it's locked/frozen
. Pull/push on the drive dog to check how much end play there is

Once that's done the next steps I do are :
. Use a pick and dig the felt wick out
. Pry off the spring on the distributor drive dog (on the bottom of the shaft)
. Undo the two screws that hold the cap clips on
. Pull the points wire off the spade
. Undo the screw holding the plate that keeps the plastic block (condenser/points connections) in the dissy body
. CAREFULLY take off the circlip on the vac advance arm to points plate post
. Undo the last screw on the vac advance can
. Lift up gently on the can to free the arm and remove the vac can
. Remove the condenser and plastic block
. pick/pry/prise the points plate assembly out, going carefully.

** Fair Warning Here ** If you handle the points plate badly you'll seperate/break the braided copper wire connecting the two. It isn't a fun job to fix it!!

Once it is out, undo the points lock screw and remove the points then undo the screw holding the ball bearing retainer and gently get that off and the ball bearing out.

Next up is I mark the drive dog and dissy shaft on one side so I know which way they'll go back together.

Now the brutality. Get a stiff pin punch slightly smaller than the pin and a block of hardwood (assuming you have no fabbed up stuff for use in a vice) that's big enough to support the drive dog parallel with whatever surface you are on.
What I do is drill holes in the hardwood for the pin to be driven into before I start belting the pin out.
Assuming you're ready, grab that hammer and punch and drive that pin out. It needs some medium heavy blows to get out and make sure that pin is vertical all the time!! Drive it out until the drive dog falls off the shaft. Carefully remove whatever is under the drive dog.

Now you can pull the entire distributor shaft out of the body, careful as there may be a fibre and a steel washer under it.

[volkenstein]

Now for the advance & shaft.

Here it is once I've finished :



I'm pretty paranoid when it comes to taking advance mechanisms apart, paricularly which spring goes with what weight and overall orientation. It is all too easy once in the drudgery of cleaning to suddenly think (or forget!),
"Which way was this when I took out "

Anyway, the advance mechanism in most Bosch dissys I've worked on are retained by a circlip to the shaft. What I do is mount the points lobe end in a wood block lined vice, tighten it up so it's firmly held and then get a biggish tapered punch and hammer and firmly tap on the actual shaft through the top of the advance mechanism. Try to "dead blow" the hammer as you don't want the shaft rocketing out and you want to keep the punch in there to stop the circlip being lost. When the shaft has "popped" loose (you will know, believe me), carefully take the punch away and while undoing the vice tip the shaft vertical.

Carry it over or whatever to a nice clean bench and dump the circlip out. There may be a washer is well that'll come out too.
What I do now is mark (usually paint) one side of the advance. So that's advance, spring, weight and bottom plate.

Now with needle nose pliers unhook the weight springs and pull the advance mechanism off the shaft. Another thing I do is put everything in the orientation I pulled it off. Remove the E clips, remove the weights, SUPER carefully remove the washers and finally just as carefully remove the plastic gasket.

What I didn't do is take off the bottom plate by undoing the two screws underneath. That plate is set to control the tension on your springs and I didn't want to attempt resetting the advance curves if I screwed up.

A few things here are really 205AH specific. I recently did a 205AN and it was totally different. Personally I think it's easier to screw up a 205AN as the 205AH has some well thought out stuff to make re-assembly much easier.

[volkenstein]

All,
    I'll spare you the drudgery of cleaning as it took a fair while. I'll dribble on about what condition I found it to be in. The points were brand spanking new so I'll reuse them. The vac can is OK, just weatherbeaten. No dodgy screws anywhere (unlike a '64 one I worked on!). The fibre (bakelite) washers were so-so but at least they and the steel ones were there. At some stage water got into this one and I washed/cleaned out a whole pile of surface rust and muck. A quick spin on the lathe had the dissy body tidied up and then I ran a small millsaw file across the bottom and cap mounting surfaces to remove any nicks or highspots. The cap clips were functional but won't win any beauty contests.

I got a kit of all washers and stuff from Randy Steele of European Parts Specialists in Santa Barbara, USA. On special and even with airmail the grand total was 14 South Pacific Peso's.

[68autobug]

great coverage Sean..

but I don't think I'll be pulling any apart...

still looks too hard for me...

PS: what is a south pacific Peso?   {Aussie Dollar?]

Lee

[volkenstein]

Lee,
     Yes, the aussie dollar as it was called in the nineties! Generally you'd only do this to ones that measure more than .008" shaft endplay (one I had didn't have shims/washers at all!) or if you see signs of rust/corrosion/general filth. More of an FYI post, and let's face it, most GOING cars wouldn't need it.

So, ever onwards. Now that things have been washed/scrubbed/polished/de-rusted the re-assembly can begin.

I just laid it all out like so for a photo opportunity:



From left to right : Drive Dog and roll pin, below that are endplay adjustment shims, dissy body, large felt wick for the shaft and below that is a steel shim on the left and synthetic (replacing the old bakelite one) washer on the right, then advance mechanism & springs, washer, circlip and upper felt "button" & below them is the semi-assembled shaft, along with a bakelite washer on the left and steel shim to the the right.

*** IMPORTANT NOTE ***  The bakelite washers always go next to the body!!

So in theory you put a bakelite washer on the dissy body, steel shim on the shaft and then drop the shaft through the body. Similarly at the drive dog end you slip a bakelite (synthetic etc) washer on first and then a steel shims as necessary to set endplay.

I usually start with fitting the advance to the shaft first. Here's photo before I get to it :



What I have done already here is:
. Fitted plastic gasket - This one can go on either way so no problems
. Put two little washers on the advance posts
. Run some moly grease down the advance posts and the holes in the advance weights
. Put the advance weights on - the heavy weight goes on the side where a hole has been drilled in line with the
  matching advance mechanism post. You can see it in the above pic.
. Put the circlips back on to secure the advance weights and check their movement is free

After soaking the dissy felt in engine oil, just roll it up a little and refit it to the lower dissy body. Use a handy rod to roll it against the wall and leave a clear passage for the shaft later on.
Using some needlenose pliers put the advance springs on the posts of the advance mechanism. Smear the shaft with engine oil and slide it onto the shaft and then hook the springs to their bolt on posts. The advance mechanism will only go on one way, unfortunately the springs can go on either which is why I always keep them laid out matching where they were fitted.
Pop the small washer into the end of the advance mechanism so it drops over the distributor shaft then drop the C clip down there. The tricky part is to pop the C clip back onto the shaft. I've done it in the past with two small screwdrivers but now I use a bit of 8mm (5/16 ish) rod with a shallow 6mm hole in one end. All you do is carefully put that on top of the C clip and a small rap with a bit of wood or screwdriver handle and on it pops. Whip it out and pull up on the advance mechanism to make sure all is hunky dory. Soak the felt button in engine oil and put it all the way down in the advance mechanism so it sits on the dissy shaft. Wipe away excess oil.

Now a drop or two of engine oil on the dissy body, followed by a bakelite washer, then put a steel washer on that and drop the shaft through the dissy and you're set to get stuck into setting end play. 

[volkenstein]

All,
   So a word of warning first up - a little brutality can be a touch too much . I found this out when setting the end play. What I did was "guesstimate" the number of shims so that I would have around .005" to .006" up/down play. Then to check, I slip the fibre washer on first, steel shims and then the drive dog back into the positions I marked on the drive dog and shaft. I get the roll pin and tap it into the shaft a little and measure with feeler gauges what the end play gap is and knock the drive pin out and after measuring up a suitable steel washer put it on and reassemble and off we go. It was a bear to drive back in, and when I was at the stage with maybe 2mm more of driving the pin, the drive dog was rigidly fixed and I had about .001" end play . So I knocked the pin back out (and it was tough!) and then had a really good look at things.

I found during driving the pin OUT the first time I had bruised the drive dog. So out with the small millsaw file and sure enough I had high spots so I just filed them flat. Then I got out a 4mm cobalt drill bit lying around and ran it through the drive dog holes and sure enough it "hung up" in certain places. So I popped it into the drill press and by hand ran the drive dog around and up and down until it passed through both holes smoothly. I checked the roll pin and gently round the outer edges and it went through the drive dog nice and smooth. A slightly tight sliding fit is what you should have.

Anyway, with that all fixed I knocked up a sort of bush out of a 30mm nut bored to 25mm ID. Two holes in it to fit the roll pin and driver and re-did the end play thing and this time when I drove the roll pin in the drive dog was still a sliding fit and end play was even all around at .005".

The maximum allowable is supposed to be .008", so I set end play tighter to allow for wear 'n' tear.


Volkenstein

[volkenstein]

All,
    So the drive dog is on, and then the spring is fitted and it is on to the rest of re-assembly.

Here is a shot before I start on the points plate etc. You can see that "bush" I made up :



From this stage the steps are :

. Seperate the two halves of the points plate and lather up with moly disulphide grease and put back together
  to test rotation and sliding of the surfaces.
. Put a dab of sticky grease onto the hump where the ball bearing sits and put the ball bearing onto that hump
. Put a dab of sticky & moly into the steel cupped holder and run it down it's post until it touches the
  ball bearing
. Tiny screw and washer to lock the holder in place fitted and tightened.
. Check the points plate moves nice and smooth again
. Drop the points plate into the distributor body (in my pic, the plate needs to be turned 180 degrees)

*** There are 6 screws. The SHORTEST is to hold the plastic doohickey that the points wire connects to. The two LONGEST go through the distributor cap clips, through the dissy body and into the points plate threaded "arms". ***

. Grab your cap clamps and the two longest screws and fit them to the distrbutor body and tighten firmly
. Smear some distributor lube onto the advance mechanism cam lobes
. Put the points in and make sure the pivot post engages in its recess, then fit the screw that secures it


Now the only things left are the remaining external tack-ons.

[volkenstein]

All,
   Now it's time to put the vacuum advance back on, the condenser and the securing plate for the plastic doohickey the points connects to (or other end of the condenser wire if you like).

*** Set aside the SHORTEST remaining screw ***

. A little dab of moly grease goes on the vac advance connection post on the points plate
. Fit the vacuum advance can connecting arm through the odd shaped large window in the distributor body,
  then through the loop of the copper braided wire and slip it onto the post
. Fit one screw on the side where the carby connections are
. Fit the nasty little "E" clip onto the post and "click" it into its groove using needlenose pliers
. Grab the condenser and with the wire facing DOWN fit a screw through it's mounting hole and fit it to the
  remaining vac advance can clampling point hole
. Align the vac advance can evenly with the distributor body and tighten both screws
. Push the plastic doohickey (spade facing up) into the hole in the dissy body, fit the large plate into it's
  groove in the plastic and secure it all with the short screw you set aside

*** If you don't use the shortest screw, the mechanical advance spring holder (under the points plate) will hit it and can't turn *** 

There you have it, apart from the rotor & cap fitting like so :



What's left?
. Give all screws the once over for tightness
. Wipe off any excess lube
. Set your points gap and tighten the screw then run a piece of clean paper through the points a few times
  to clean the faces
. If you have one, hook up a Mityvac and check the vac advance pulls the plate around smoothly

The acid test is fitting it on the car, setting and adjusting timing (at least you know it's functional ) and checking both mechanical and vacuum advance against the Bentley if you like. If you go from a 009 or SVDA back to the stock DVDA you'll more than likely need to re-adjust your carb.

Comments (good or bad, I don't mind) or suggestions please!


Volkenstein

[Airhead]

Comments (good or bad, I don't mind) or suggestions please!


Volkenstein

Yes send it across to me for testing in the UK, if it doesnt work I'll send you back my old 009 

Airhead

[volkenstein]

Airhead,
         

I'll send you back my old 009 

.

But I know it'll be a POS already

If you are somewhat deadly serious about latching onto an AH DVDA...troll TheSamba classifieds or give me a shout in about 2 months...a candidate + rebuild kit is making it's way over to me.

HTH
Volkenstein

[68autobug]

WOW Sean,

I'm worn out just reading what you did.... 

too many parts for Me...

Good photos and explanations though

cheers

LEE

[Airhead]

Airhead,
         

I'll send you back my old 009 

.

But I know it'll be a POS already

If you are somewhat deadly serious about latching onto an AH DVDA...troll TheSamba classifieds or give me a shout in about 2 months...a candidate + rebuild kit is making it's way over to me.

HTH
Volkenstein

Hi Sean

Im seriously looking, another recommendation is the SVDA from Aircooled.net Ive been trolling through vzi and it gets good reviews, I want to get my car back to stock, i.e remove crappy Bocar 34 Pict 3 (which is leaking anyway) and 009 and replace with good stuff, question for you is the AH a DVDA I thought the SVDA was correct for my model year '71, whats the diffrerence and which ones correct?

Cheers

Steve

[volkenstein]

Steve,
        The AH distributor is a DVDA and is correct for the '71.
IMHO, unless you are going for show points or are sworn to stock by inner voices - Get the Aircooled.net SVDA. John can set them for whatever you run (engine wise).

There are far too many cons concerning unknown condition 38 year old distributors bought second-hand. VW even dropped them in favour of SVDA's.

I just like to live vicariously and have a myriad of inner voices


Regards
Sean

[bowlingbrad]

SVDA.

If I can install it, then anyone can!

[volkenstein]

All,
   So, une vrai maman came through and I received this second one. Well, there is a good reason not to look gift horses in the mouth!!   The shed creativity is going to be needed on this one. Major problem No 1 is that the vac can is utterly blown BUT it has the adjustable eccentric still fitted so I'd hazard a guess and say it was an all original build. No 2 is that the plastic "plate" under the advance weights had fallen apart and No 3 is that there were no washers under the advance weights. No 3 is a simple lathe fix, and No 2 should involve a minor amount of shopping and some cutting and wad punching. No 1...well, I've found a guy who refurbs vac can's and I'll see what the damage is. Points, condenser & rotor will be flung too.

A little handy hint. Rust removal on these little jobbies. Grab a bottle of white vinegar ($3 AUS for 2 litres) and cut up a plastic coke bottle. Dump your bits 'n' pieces in there, fill with white vinegar and (dependant on heat) wait 24 hours, or 48 if a little heavy. Run the container under hot water to displace the vinegar and then attack with a rag when cool and a steel wire brush (toothbrush sized one). Slather it all with CRC 556 or similar water dispersant/protector and away you go.

I'll post up a pic when I can of the "after" shots.

Enjoy
Volkenstein