Changing ATF/Trans Oils - Hints? Tips etc

[volkenstein]

Thought I'd better post this up as a general guide. I wrote this on TheSamba in response to a question.


ATF. Better with two people. 2 gallons of DEXRON 111 ATF + 1 bottle (or 10 litres, take your pick).

If it is the ATF that is discoloured, best thing to do is get the tank drained first and then flush the system. First things first. Clean the bottom banjo bolt and surrounding area. Then do the same at the hose connection on the filler neck.
So, place a large container under the tank bottom then undo the banjo bolt. It's advisable to give the spanner some sharp blows to "crack" it loose. Watch for the copper washers! Undo all the way and let all the ATF drain out. Refit the banjo bolt and washers (in sequence!) and give it 25ft/lb torque.
Next, undo the return line from the filler tank neck. Place a length of spare garden hose over it and run it into a bucket. Fill the ATF tank with fresh oil. Have a friend start the car and let it idle. Keep adding ATF to the tank as the old rubbish pumps out. Check the colour of oil coming out of the hose. Keep cycling new oil into the tank until the oil coming out of the hose is a beautiful light cherry red. Stop the engine. Check the ATF oil level with the dipstick. Say...1/2" below the top mark is good. Add or drain as necessary. Take the garden hose off and refit the hose to the filler neck. A firm wrist twist to tighten it.

Trans. Oil - 6.3 US pints or 3.5 litres, trans pan gasket, 17mm hex key tool (or a bootyfab effort) & patience. A big jack and stands too. Better done when the trans is warm.

Raise the rear up and put on stands. Grovel around underneath and find the 17mm inside hex fill plug. It's above the Drivers (LHD!) frame horn towards the front of the car, but before the nosecone piece. Again, clean the area until you can see your face in it as my old boss used to say. Grab the 17mm hex key tool (or whatever) and with a steady amount of force try to undo the fill plug. Do this first or you'll never be able to get oil in there. Undo it and set aside. Now slide a container under the trans pan and undo the pan bolts (you may still have the bolt straps, keep them aside too) a little. Then remove the front (front of car) pan bolts and loosen the rest then pry the pan down until oil spews out. Let it drain for a while. Remove the pan bolts and straps and pull off the pan. While you are cleaning the pan, raise the front of the car so it's level and get's the rest of the oil out. Get that container out of the way. Clean off the trans pan mounting surface. Gasket on the pan, chuck a few pan bolts on and tighten until you feel a little resistance. Put the rest of the pan bolts on (and straps etc) and just finger tight.

**NB** You may have a very long bolt. This goes in the centre front (front of car) hole.
Now do those up, criss-cross to 7 ft/lb. I say bolts but they can also be screws.

I'll leave it to you whether to get extra stands to hold the car level or work having the jack up front.

Now the horror. If your oil bottles have an extended neck or whatever, you have to get that in the trans fill hole and pump oil in there. By hook or by crook, get oil in there, but take a break between bottles. It has to run down to the R&P. Eventually nearing the 5.5 to 6 pint mark-ish you should be able to feel the oil with your pinky in the fill hole. Pump in more, slowly, until a driblet comes out of the thread. Fill plug back in. Don't go nuts tightening it!! A firm wrist twist is all that's required. Sorry, I don't have a torque spec.

As for the trans oil...I don't live in the USA, so I stick by what's available here. Castrol LSX90 or VMX80. Mike and other A-S owners who are US based can offer more choices.

Here's where the fill plug is :



This is an early trans and you can see the second drain plug to the left. Later models don't have this.

Feel free anyone with comments, additions, deletions etc.

HTH
Volkenstein

[dfrommi]

Grab the 17mm key tool (or whatever)

my whatever was a 17mm nut welded onto another nut lol

[Bookwus]

Hiya Sean,

Excellent piece.  Bjorn should start a supplemental tech archive section for articles like yours.  To tell the truth, they are a LOT better than the directions in a Bentley.

Oh and FWIW.............I use a 17mm Allen socket with a 1/2 inch drive.  I can apply some pretty good torque on that (using a breaker bar) to loosen up the filler plug.  Lucky me..........I also have the drain plug.

[68autobug]

Good article Sean,
I also had two nuts welded to gether but they came apart trying to undo the two plugs on My spare gearbox...
My Son happened to have the correct tool [1/2 inch drive] to undo them
I have used teflon tape on the drain plug and done it up finger tight..
I have replaced the axle flange seals, and replaced the flanges etc..

Did you use the 80 or 90 grade oil??

The ATF system only uses 3.6 liters or 7.6 US pints...
but I'm assuming that You are cleaning out the system...

The torque converter in My car at present had been left in the rain...
and it took Me a lot of bottles of ATF to get it a nice red color..

I always drain the ATF from the bottom of the tank as you suggested but I've never emptied the system like that [engine going]..
so I've learnt something today...
I always save the ATF fluid as the car had not been on the road when I was pulling the engine out... always with new clean containers etc...
but I've never reused the ATF...
I've never been able to reuse oil etc, even if the engine hasn't turned over..
its a clean thing .... lol

cheers

Lee - 68Autobug - Australia -

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

[volkenstein]

All,
     Lee, crank the amps up on your welder and really burn that weld in 
I've topped my trans oil up with VMX80, but I've got 4 litres of LSX90 on hand for a proper change.

I'd go easy (which you have anyway) on tightening with Teflon tape on there. The plugs are tapered. A small smear of Loctite Master Pipe sealant is what I've been using.

Flange seals? The ones that seal around the outside of the stub axles inside the adjusters? Post up what numbers they are!!

dfrommi,
           The 17mm nuts are great, use them myself though I'd rather have Mike's setup!.

Mike, that's a trippy avatar you found yourself! 


Regards
Sean

[Chris the Eagle]

Thanks volkenstein for posting this, it will be a great help to me when I go to do some work on my VW.   

[68autobug]

Hi,
I'm having to write My posts on here twice...
it tells Me that the server is overloaded...
and when I delete some of the text or pics
and try to post it again,,
it says I have already posted this - ERROR -
and when i have a look, its never there....??

anyway the part number for the seals is 113 301 189F
and they are dual lipped black seals
36mm x 60mm x 9.6mm
although 8 or 10mm would do...
I used a PVC pipe joiner to knock the seals in...
a slight smear of Permatex No 3 on the OD
and a few drops of oil on the ID... between the two lips...

cheers

Lee - 68Autobug - Australia -

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

[68autobug]

The screws that hold the bottom pan on are 7mm...
I have lost one and I was going to replace them with stainless steel bolts or allen headed bolts..
but they aren't available....
I'll have to get a bolt from another transmission I have...

Does anyone have Hexagon headed bolts in their Pan??
or do We all have allen headed screws....??

cheers

Lee -

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

[68autobug]

Has anyone used CASTROL Multitrac gear/diff transaxle oil 

Thats what I bought last time.. still have a few liters of it left...

Lee

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

so drive a Volkswagen and You'll be happy that You did
old Radio add in Australia - it was pronounced VolksVagen... true..

[tmea]

FWIW...Gearbox plugs... I would be very careful about tightening those drain and fill plugs tightly. From personal experience and observations, they are tapered and if tightened too tight will absolutely crack your transmission case. I have also seem them put spider cracks all around the hole too. I use a 17mm allen wrench and put them in hand tight with no sealer of any kind. They don't leak.

[68autobug]

The drain plug in the gearbox in My beetle at the moment does weep slightly..
but I won't tighten it up, although all the plugs, side and bottom have been up very tight on all the gearboxes I own...
I don't know why the top up plug would be done up extra tight...

I use teflon tape on all tapered fittings...
even the oil pressure sender...
I don't really like tapered fittings of any kind...
as you said, many people have cracked gearboxes engines etc..
by over tightening....
but teflon tape is used widely in hydraulic couplings and hose fittings
so it does work great...

I do have a new tube of Loctite pipe sealant, but so far have never used it on anything...

Lee

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

[volkenstein]

Lee,
     

The screws that hold the bottom pan on are 7mm...
I have lost one and I was going to replace them with stainless steel bolts or allen headed bolts..
but they aren't available....
I'll have to get a bolt from another transmission I have...

Does anyone have Hexagon headed bolts in their Pan??
or do We all have allen headed screws....??

We've had this out before .
My spare and the one in my car use M6 x 1mm x 20mm bolts (apart from 1 which has a 20mm blank extension, centre front on trans). 
I would seriously measure yours (use a 10mm nut) and verify that someone hasn't whacked in 1/4" by mistake or otherwise!

Wouldn't want to helicoil all of them back to M6 x 1 !!

PS, mine are all bolts.

Regards
Sean

[68autobug]

Hi Sean,
all the screws on My original gearbox and spare gearbox have the 7mm phillips headed screws....
which seems strange to Me...
its definately 7mm
I just looked up My blue [1968] Bentley manual and it says
M7 x 14 bolts...

it seems very strange to use 7mm to start with and then phillips head too...??

I suppose they didn't want them to be stripped...
they were done up very tight..
I used vice grips to undo them...

I haven't checked the other spare gearbox I have... [1968 also]

I didn't know they were 7mm until I took one to the Bolt shop and ordered 14 allen headed stainless ones...

cheers

Lee -- 68Autobug -

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

[volkenstein]

Lee,
     Colour me stupid and knock me down with a feather.. They are M7 thread...

Who knows what bolt *I* was measuring !!

I went out and checked (I have all the trans bolts in a marked container) and sure as eggs, they measured 6.8 mm in diameter!!

I can see myself licking oil stains off concrete driveways for all eternity......maybe I should start practicing now?

I guess that brings about a question I have now, which is :

Are my bolts VW or aftermarket??


Regards
Sean

[68autobug]

Hi Sean,
I believe if Your long bolt with no thread on the end...
is a bolt , then its probably factory....

unless someone has machined the end of a long 7mm bolt...
if You could find one... lol   

Mike,
Do You have bolts on the gearbox pan...??

Lee


http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug