Towing an autostick or using a tow bar to tow them are no-no's???

scr2000 · 27 October 2011, 19:31

what are you refering to when you say "semi-auto"

i always thought there were manuals, auto-sticks (like mine and everyone else on this forum) and then automatics.

raysor · 27 October 2011, 20:40

The Beetle is a semi-automatic. It has a conventional manual gearbox, a clutch (flexi-plate, I think) and a torque converter. The clutch is operated by an electro-mechanical servo (by movement of the gear lever) and the gears are changed by the gear lever.
In a 'proper' automatic there is no clutch and it is a special gearbox (not an adapted manual). The drive is through a torque converter. basically the torque converter (I think) senses the load on the engine and 'instructs' the gearbox to change gear.
Put it this way if you are in 1st gear in a Beetle and accelerate it will never change gear automatically like an automatic will!
A torque converter is basically a fluid (oil) coupling between engine and wheels. As the torque converter speeds up the fluid gets thicker until it becomes almost a solid coupling and as it slows down the fluid gets thinner and will start slipping. So it is basically a clutch.
I don't know the exact reason but this is why you must not tow an automatic above a certain speed (about 30mph).

raysor · 27 October 2011, 20:49

Of course there are some 'proper' automatics in some VW. I think in the Type 4.
And also there are the CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) or 'variomatic' transmission found in DAF and small Rover Automatics, Honda and Mini One.
Apparently they can drive just as fast backwards as forwards. Don't try it!

scr2000 · 27 October 2011, 22:32

just to get this thread back on track.... it is BAD to tow VW auto sticks with that tow bar set up?

CarlIseminger · 27 October 2011, 22:33

raysor, the only time the clutch is disegaged is when you are moving the shift lever, and there has to be power to the selenoid. So if the ignition switch is off, and the car is being towed, the clutch will be engaged.

This is such an unusual transmission with so many variables. But I seem to have read that many have towed their automatic stickshift without any problems.

raysor · 27 October 2011, 22:51

Quote from: CarlIseminger on 27 October 2011, 22:33
raysor, the only time the clutch is disegaged is when you are moving the shift lever, and there has to be power to the selenoid. So if the ignition switch is off, and the car is being towed, the clutch will be engaged.

This is such an unusual transmission with so many variables. But I seem to have read that many have towed their automatic stickshift without any problems.

No. The clutch also has a centrifugal device. Also the vacuum needs to be present which it wouldn't be with engine off. I am sure the clutch would be disengaged. You got me thinking though-are you 100% sure?
Yes, of course the clutch is engaged!!!

raysor · 27 October 2011, 22:54

The Haynes manual just says the automatic can be towed in the case of breakdown. It doesn't not mention speed or distance restriction. I would have thought it would have mentioned any restrictions if there were any.

68autobug · 28 October 2011, 03:51

the autostick is quite a different vehicle to either a manual car or a fully automatic car

the clutch is always engaged.... with the ignition off... same as in a normal manual car..

the autostick gearbox is driven by the torque converter...

the clutch just connects the gearbox to the torque converter

the engine drives the car with the small ATF pump on the rear of the engine..

My thoughts are:
the gearbox and differential are the same as in a manual car...

NEUTRAL is Neutral ... both cars have a neutral position..

Clutch is engaged as is normal in any manual car..

so, towing an autostick car in NEUTRAL is the same as a manual car... BOTH in NEUTRAL ... !!

Only difference ... is the gearbox is connected to the engine thru the clutch in a ,manual car

whereas the autostick - the gearbox is connected to the engine thru the torque converter ...

I cannot see any problems towing an autostick...

its in NEUTRAL ... same as in a manual car ... and gearbox is a manual with 3 gears... instead of 4...

so the axles turning has NO effect at all.... same as a manual car.... IMHO

LEE in Australia

kimbill · 28 October 2011, 05:11

Two years ago, we dolly-towed our newly acquired AS from WY to MN, then tow-barred it to FL (3000 mi., total). The transmission still works and has an add'l 1500 mi of normal usage......... Before we knew about VWAR, we posted towing questions to The Samba group, resulting in lots of good chatter -- check it out over there.

Bill
'71 Ghia AS

PS: Still have to "sneak" into reverse: 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004......1007 etc.

68autobug · 28 October 2011, 07:07

Hi Bill

thinking of how the autostick works takes a bit of concentration... lol

fixing the reverse crunch is just an adjustment of the clutch servo adjuster..
usually 1/2 to 1 turn does the job [tightening]

the control valve adjusts the time the clutch is depressed...
fast or slow etc...

You don't see many cars being towed in Australia...
so those towing bars aren't sold over here...

cheers

Lee in Australia

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scr2000 · 28 October 2011, 16:08

Ok.... I'm gonna go with Lee's more comforting opinion on this and not feel too worried about having towed my car this way.

CarlIseminger · 28 October 2011, 16:17

The clutch portion of the automatic stickshift transmission is the same as in a manual clutch car. I should know, I just spent $1200 having it replaced!

The clutch uses engine vacuum to disengage the clutch so that you can shift gears. This is the same as pressing "in" on the clutch pedal. The torque converter allows the car to come to a rest while still in gear and not stall the engine. It also "magically" multiplies the torque so that in reality, the transmission is in 3rd gear when you have Range 1 selected. So it allows for smooth take off.

There is no centrifugal force in this clutch assembly whatsoever. If there isn't engine vacuum, the clutch servo can't work and therefore the clutch is engaged.

This is a marvelous piece of equipment our cars have. Porsche used it also in the Sportomatic. When it is working correctly, it is wonderful, when something goes wrong, there are very few mechanics who are knowledgeable and are willing to work on it.

scr2000 · 28 October 2011, 17:11

So Carl, your view is "Don't Tow it with a tow bar"?

raysor · 28 October 2011, 19:58

Quote from: CarlIseminger on 28 October 2011, 16:17
There is no centrifugal force in this clutch assembly whatsoever.

You are right. I thought I had read somewhere that when the car is stopping a centrifugal device disengaged the clutch, but I can't see it anywhere and there is no hint of it in the manual. Must have been something else!

As for the towing, in the Haynes manual, Chapter 7, Part 2, Item 12: The car may be towed in case of breakdown or accident with the gear change lever in neutral.

I feel sure it would have mentioned an optimum maximum speed if there was one.

Cubey · 31 October 2011, 04:54

Here's my two cents.

They say autostick and that's what VW called these cars... so I say believe them when they say not to use them with an autostick. In the case of a fully automatic car, there is a "neutral" as well but it's still somewhat of a no-no to tow it any great distance or at any great speed in "neutral". It's ok if you're stuck on the side of the road and need to be towed a couple miles to a garage or home, but I wouldn't do it more than that. Better off disconnecting the drive shafts if you want to tow it 100 miles.