Dizzy and Carb Advice

[dforbes]

Hello,

I have a 1970 AS.  Currently it has the wrong Distributor and Carb on it though it will run and even shift well without slamming.  The specs on the carb are from a 1974 manual 1600 with timing set to 5 degrees after TDC.  So this is what I have been setting the timing to statically and it looks "on" when I use a timing light.  I have a 30 pict-2 carb with one vacuum line.  It uses a vacuum line that t-connects between the single vacuum advance in the dizzy, the shifter servo and the carb.  It works but the car just does not idle smooth though it runs.  Perhaps the Carb requires major adjustment (I took it apart, cleaned and replaced all the parts with a new kit).  Even the electric choke is new.  I am wondering if I can add the second vacuum port to the front of my current carb?  I assume this will go to the servo while the vacuum on the can will go to the side port on the carb. 

The car just won't seem to get a smooth idle.  It always has a slight intermittent hiccup.  It is not all that great on fuel and I have adjusted the carb several times without any real improvement.  It also stalls often at stops and I assume this is directly related to the vacuum issue. All my vacuum lines are new and there are no leaks.  Like I said, it shifts just fine...no slamming. 

Any advice is appreciated.

[68autobug]

Hi
Yes, You are compromising with the vacuum. The vacuum for the distributor is different to the control valve vacuum and they two vacuums from different parts of the carburetor too
You need to drill the carburetor to add the correct vacuum for the control valve plus the vacuum advance will will correctly..
The timing is usually 7.5 degrees BTDC but it varies .. 
I believe 5 degrees ATDC is for dual vacuum distributors.. has advance and retard vacuum cans, one on either side..
I'll try to find the how to do the vacuum on carburetors on here.

cheers

Lee in Australia

[dforbes]

Hi
Yes, You are compromising with the vacuum. The vacuum for the distributor is different to the control valve vacuum and they two vacuums from different parts of the carburetor too
You need to drill the carburetor to add the correct vacuum for the control valve plus the vacuum advance will will correctly..
The timing is usually 7.5 degrees BTDC but it varies .. 
I believe 5 degrees ATDC is for dual vacuum distributors.. has advance and retard vacuum cans, one on either side..
I'll try to find the how to do the vacuum on carburetors on here.

cheers

Lee in Australia

Thanks for the reply.  I look forward to your further info.  I have read through this forum a bit.  It is the best resource out there.

[dforbes]

A fella says he has a carb for me.  Says it is a solex 30 PICT-3 and matches my application.  Looks weird to me.  I will post more pics but I found a similar one on a car pic.  What is the big thing with the two vacuum lines in the front?  It also attaches to a vacuum line at the base of the carb?  He says the carb has a tag that reads 113290029D.  I assume this is the dizzy that should be used with the carb but I find no reference to this dizzy anywhere.



Here are the pics of the carb he sent me.




here is the distributor he has

[volkenstein]

DForbes,
              The thingy in your piccie is either an altitude compensator (the should be a small "rubbish can" somewhere on the LHS of your piccie) or a decel pot for the carb.

From OldVolkshome :

Beetle 1970 * 1600 Auto-Stick Trans

Distributor: VW 113-905-205AD or AE, Bosch 0231 167 029 > 113 905 205AL, 0231 146 101
Can Use: VW 113-905-205AA, Bosch 0231 115 078
Points: 01 011
Points Replacement Plate Assy: VW 311-905-227A, Bosch 1237 110 064
Condensor: 02 039
Rotor: 04 033
Cap: 03 010
Parts Kit (Shims, Washers & Hardware): 059-998-211, Bosch 1237 010 007
Coil: 00 015 (Blue Coil: 00 012)
Vacuum Can: 07 138
Ignition Wires: 09 001
Spark Plug: W8AC
Timing Set At:: 0deg TDC @ 800-950rpm w/strobe w/vacuum hose disconnected and plugged
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 8-12deg Adv; Centrifugal: 13-16deg @ 2200rpm, 25-28deg @ 3900rpm

This is assuming a. You are US based and b. Your donk is a stock "B" series single port. If it all is, lucky you. I scour the ads on www.thesamba.com for oil pumps from this one year, US only series motor.

You should digest a post by Andy (Glutamodo) on www.thesamba.com that concerns "what carb with what distributor". There are many, many combo's possible. Me personally? I would not use the distributor in your pic unless it matches the above numbers. It is a DVDA (Dual Vacuum Dual Advance). Get something that matches from the list above or grab an aircooled.net SVDA.

Enjoy
Volkenstein

[dforbes]

Currently I have the following on there (engine is B6007664):
Distributor is JFU3 0231170034 (Listed for 1974 federal manual car with timing for 7.5 btdc)
Timing Set At:: 7.5deg BTDC @ 800-950rpm w/strobe and w/single vacuum hose disconnected and plugged
Carb: Solex 30 PICT-2

If I set the timing to TDC it runs poorly.  If I set it to 5 after TDC it seems to run better (Should I try 7.5 BTDC to match the dizzy?).  However, when in gear at idle the unsteady idle I can feel it surging slightly on the brake.  I checked the points gap again and I know valves are set because I set them all two weeks ago.  Like I said, the vacuum lines look all good (most all are new).  Before the car went into the shop for paint I never had a problem running the car.  It would sometimes stall at stop signs but I assume that was because I am splitting the vacuum from the carb between the dizzy and the servo.  I took it out two nights ago just to run it on the highway and I could not get it to go past 60 mph which it did easily before.  Then after about 10 miles it starts to lose power and begins to stall.  Even if I throw it in neutral I can barely give it gas enough to keep it running.  To tell you the truth I am not sure if it is flooding or starved. 

I adjusted the air screw on the carb (this is the only adjustment) out 2.5 turns like it says in the book.  makes little difference if I adjust it half a turn either way.  The car starts fine and would idle all day in neutral if I let it.  It just won't run smooth and I am stumped.  So I am trying to find the right cab and dizzy to start at least though, based on the past, this should not be the current source o my problem.

I look forward to the continued advice here.

[68autobug]

Hi.
Sean [volkenstein] knows more than Me about matching distributors etc..
I would set it to 7.5 or 8 degrees BTDC [8 degrees is easier..]

I just had a similar problem in which I wasn't sure it was too rich [flooding] or too lean
and have been pulling my hair out trying to find the cause..

I have pulled the carby apart, replaced all gaskets etc..[inlet-heat riser pipes]
then battery was dead...replaced battery and it started and idles every time but just not right.. and popping in the exhaust
I went to tune it and there was no flashing of the timing light on number one cylinder??

even took the pertronix kit from My SVDA BOSCH distributor and replaced it with new points condensor and new distributor cap and rotor..
cleaned the new spark plugs [two months old] Nippon Denso brand..
and it seemed to be nearly OK but with popping in the exhaust at revs..
didn't seem to have dropped a cylinder
but wasn't a normal happy engine...

I was advised by a VW Mechanic in Australia to change the number one spark plug..
I only had the old Bosch ones, but put one in and...
Engine is now idling and revving as normal... lol

now I can put the pertronix back in My SVDA.. lol
and retune the engine..

I did have flooding a few years ago and I knew that it was flooding at the time..
My electric fuel pump was pumping too much so I just turned it on & off..
until i got home.. lol
I fitted a fuel pressure regulator then...

the distributor and control valve sharing the same vacuum port always causes problems..
there usually is too much vacuum for the control valve.. at that port..
it needs to be on the RHS at the rear of the carby [You do look at the rear of the carby- or is it the front?]
there are usually 2 or 3 marks there [round holes not drilled]

cheers

LEE in Australia
here is a pic from bowling brad in his Karmann GHIA

[dforbes]

Thanks for the replies.  I am going to go over it again with a fine tooth comb.  I rebuilt the carb and cleaned it out and replaced all the parts with a kit last weekend.  I will get some new plugs for good measure although they looked fine.  I replaced the points and condensor and that does not seem to improve things.  The coil is new and so is the fuel pump.  I am certain it is not the pump since it has never been an issue since putting it on.  I can't see why the fuel pressure would increase without me making any changes to the mount. 

I can time it statically or with a light.  I will try the 7.5 BTDC but when I tried to turn the dizzy while running with the timing light, bringing BTDC made it run horribly. 

Now, can I use my current carb, or the 30 PICT-3 the other dude is offering to sell me if I plug the ports I don't need and drill the one port I do?

There is a guy locally actually (which is rare since I live in the middle of nowhere) that is selling two cars as a package.  Once is an autostick.  He says one is a parts car for the other.  I told him the majority of the drivetrain is not swapable but he won't believe me.  I told him I would buy the driveline off him but he says it has to go as a package.  Frustrating as hell since he has no idea what he has.

Thanks for the continued input.

Darren

[dforbes]

So a fella from the Samba says he has a dizzy and carb for me.  What do you folks think.  On the dizzy, the bosch number lists as compatible but the vwnumber does not.  Is that a big deal?  Will it work?


The carb he sent me pics of looks just like the other one I already posted.  It is for the manual since it does not have the vacuum port on the front that I need.  Correct?


Thanks

[68autobug]

Hi
I'm guessing that the bosch number will be OK as VW may have changed the number because fitting another car??
I've never seen a dashpot on a carby here in Australia..
they were on Japanese cars here in the 80s.  I always took them off..
they stop the engine from coming straight down at high throttle so the gases/fumes from the inside the engine aren't as high if it wasn't fitted... without them You can rev an engine and when You let go of the throttle the engine revs die virtually straight away.
Hopefully Sean can help with the distributor carburetor pairing.
the dual vacuum on the distributor , one is to retard the timing - the other advances the timing
I have read that leaving the retard one open and just the other one works. [not sure whether it needs to be capped]

cheers

LEE

[dforbes]

OK, it looks like a guy from the Samba has what I need

This is the carb he has.  It is a Solex 30 pict-3 with the two vacuum ports on the front.


Because it has the two ports I assume then that the dual can on the dizzy will hook up just fine.


While rooting through my beetle junk last night I actually found an autostick carb still mounted to the autostick exhaust manifold.  I ran the numbers and it is from a 1968.  Not the one I need to use obviously (since 68 was a 1500) but cool that I have one of anyone is looking.  I also have the dizzy for a 68 autostick two.  The irony is 10 years ago I had a red 68 autostick.  It ran awesome so I never really had to figure anything out for it.  Only kept it two years.  The heater channels were shot and I did not want to get into replacing them.  Before that I had a 67 manual which was a pain because there were so many 67 specific parts.  Let that one go too.

Where can I get a condensor for this dizzy?  I check CIP1 since it is the closest to me (and the cheapest for shipping) and it only lists autostick condensors until 69.  Also, where would I find jets for the carb?  CIP1 sells them but you have to buy a crap load of them which I won't need.  I am in Canada so North American sellers would most likely be the best suggestion.  Thanks again for all the input. This place rocks!

[68autobug]

Yes
that one looks correct, but I don't know where the retard vacuum hose went..
but it should do the job.
with the condensors, the usual difference is where the lead goes thru the side of the distributor
whether its round or square..  I had a square one years ago and I filed it round.. lol
the hole in yours looks round..  that is usually the only difference I can remember..
or You can put a pertronix kit in it and forget about timing the points forever...

cheers

Lee in Australia

[dforbes]

I paid just under $100 USD.  Is that a fair price for used stuff.  I feel like it is fair but I don't really have anything to compare it to.

Again, I still worry it is not going to solve the problem though I am sure it won't hurt.  It starts and runs on its own.  However, like I mentioned when I hit highway speeds it quickly loses power and struggles to stay running.  Even if I throw it in neutral and try and rev it to keep it alive it still dies on me.  Would vacuum have anything to do with idle if it is in neutral?  Maybe I need to take the fuel pump apart and check it out.  I know it gets fuel because if I start it it will idle there all day (even though it is uneven idle). 

I guess I will know more when I get these old parts rebuilt and put on the car.  Winter is coming fast so I am running out of time to solve this!

Darren

[68autobug]

Hi Darren
well, the cheaper the better, but everything is getting more expensive and also rarer
even though a lot were produced.  All You can do is shop around.
I'm having a problem at the moment, first a dud spark plug now I'm still having problems with the distributor, although I think it may be the carburetor now as I did pull it apart.. lol   and the noise of fuel spraying  in the carburetor is LOUD..
it is driveable though, and does idle OK, and I can get up to 100 KMH on flat roads..
little things can drive You crazy ..lol  plus  actually finding out what it is...
it sounds so easy when they are going great...
do You have a timing light to see what the distributor advances to?

cheers

LEE

[dforbes]

Hey Lee,

I do have a timing light.  What should I try? Sorry if this is a stupid question.  I just usually use it to check that the static timing matches the idle timing once warmed up.  I have a digital tack that works on a diode and some reflector tape a well.  That is how I set the idle rpm.  I have it set as close to 900 as i can get.

darren