Autostick hesitating when stopping in gear

[jovanybg]

Hi guys!
I have a 1971 KG Autostick and I replaced the carby to correct Solex 34 Pict 3. It is as new and easy to adjust!
I have also a dual vacuum distributor 205AH that I've cleaned and greased. It performs as new!
Also installed all the correct vacuum hoses.
Checked for vacuum leaks on the manifold boots - all checked good!
The problem I have is that even so the car is timed all to the degree - 5ATC and idling at 950-980rpm - it hesitates and the red generator light lights on when stopping on gear. If I go to neutral, the rpms go higher and the car idles perfect.
The car starts at the first key turn, right away and runs great! It has all the power and it shifts flawlessly!
What should I look to in order to get it to stop without hesitations on the stop light?! Now I have to go to neutral, stop the car and put it in 1-st when taking of.
Greatly appreciate any help on that matter!!

[volkenstein]

Jovanybg,
              Apart from a massively tidy engine bay ( ) , see that top hose from your CV that goes way across to the right above everything? Is it RHW12 re-inforced hose or someother re-inforced hose? The whole Vac system needs re-inforced large bore (12mm ID) to function correctly.

Also - have you checked the AH distributor is : a. Timed correctly. By this I mean DO NOT trust the engine pully markings. b. Is behaving like an AH should..ie...5 Deg ATDC when idling. Discoonect and plug that hose and the timing should jump to approx. 7.5 Deg BTDC. Max MECHANICAL advance from there is about 30-32 ish. - Disconnect and PLUG your vac advance line.

Your Vac advance is good for another 10 odd Degrees.

Start from utter basics - ie...Make sure your are at TDC on No1 at the FIRING stroke by pulling the rocker cover and verifying, then you may mark your pulley accordingly. You can pull No 1 spark plug (don't forget to grease the threads!) and use a TDC stop (Got one?) and mark the pulley Pre & Post TDC and use the mark as your TDC reference. Rob and Dave's website gives you millimeter measures to mark on your pulley circumference.

Second - it looks like you have a replacement fuel pump. Checked/Verified pressure?  And lastly...inside the carb...the float isn't hung or filling with fuel?

HTH
Volkenstein

[jovanybg]

Thanks for the tidy engine bay!!! I am trying to get it as good as I can possibly make it, keeping it stock, or almost....
My biggest goal is to make everything working, so I can drive it to the office in good days and some VW meetings in Houston.

The 12mm. vacuum hose is a tough hose, but it is as I found it in the car. Will it need to be the same braided hose as seen in the picture to/from charcoal canister?!

The distributor is timed correctly at 5 ATDC, but as you say to check it by disconnecting the hose and it should jump to 7.5 BTDC. Which hose should I disconnect - the green or the gray vacuum hose?!

The matter of how I did my timing was how you described it - I've opened the Valve cover and made sure I'm at TDC on cylinder#1. I've never used a TDC stop tool, but I can look for one... Otherwise my pulley have a cut-off mark at 5 ATDC and a dimple for a TDC. That is supposed to be the exact pulley for a 1971 KG and I think it is, but double check with that TDC tool will be good to do!!!

Never checked the pressure of the fuel coming from the fuel pump, but I think that will be imperative to do?! I'll get a gauge and measure it! Was it supposed to be in 2.5-3 psi limits?

Carb is all checked twice and is functioning as new (thanks to VolksBitz)!!!

[volkenstein]

jovanybg,
             I would then check all three that run to the CV. The top hose looks like garden variety stuff an WILL collapse on itself. As to the other two,
better safe than sorry. A fella on here a while ago suffered bizarre shifting issues and found his hoses were collapsing in on themselves because they weren't re-inforced.

If you've done the hard yards with the timing, then yeah - Green hose is Vac ATDC and you probably won't need a TDC tool. Grab a timing light and you'll see the difference.  Same goes for the Vac advance. Disconnect and plug that, rev up to 3 - 3.5 K rpm and it should go to about 30-32 degrees BTDC. 2.5 - 3 psi is right fuel pump pressure.


HTH
Volkenstein

[jovanybg]

Thank you! I'll do that. I've already ordered the vacuum hoses and will replace the garden hose and the long, rubber hose on top of the dog house.

I am getting a Fuel/Vacuum Pressure Gauge and will check the fuel pressure.

Do you have a hint on how should I proceed on measuring the vacuum?! Where should I connect the gauge?! - somewhere on distributor, or is there a port somewhere on the intake manifold? What should the vacuum pressure be? And does it need to stay steady with revving the engine or it should fluctuate?

[volkenstein]

Jovanbg,
            You only need about 5 in/Hg Max to activate the solenoid - small hose on the RIGHT side of your carby. Better off checking whether your CV will HOLD this small amount of applied vacuum.

Manifold vacuum is about 20 in/Hg sustained. Manifold vacuum goes from your intake manifold to your CV thence around the Vac system for your clutch. There is a spring loaded Flapper valve in your CV that should seal once vac is equalized between the vacuum system (storage can) and the intake manifold. I have a MITYVAC and have tested the lot and taken readings etc. Even managed to discover my Flapper valve was "bung" and required repositioning in the CV.

A timing light will help with checking whether Retard or Advance is functional. You can fix whatever doesn't work or appears help up.

Regards
Volkenstein

[jovanybg]

Thanks volkenstein.
I am still waiting for the big 12mm. vacuum hoses, but in the meantime picked up a Fuel/vacuum pressure tester and was able to measure my Fuel pump pressure at 3.5 psi which is a little bit above what I was expecting, but do not think to mess with it!

Also measured the vacuum between the carburetor and the vacuum advance on the distributor. This is the data that worries me! I am attaching a picture of the gauge and of the set-up. I've got vacuum way lower than 20 in Hg - it was constantly between 8-9 inHg! Is that something to think about? Did I chose the point of measurement correctly?
The gauge itself has a written note that at that vacuum I either have problem with valves or I have a leak on the intake manifold or raisers! Should I take this serious, or better to measure again with the new 12mm. vacuum hoses installed?
Thanks ones more!

[jovanybg]

...and this is the reading of the gauge...

[volkenstein]

jovanybug,
                That is vacuum retard you are measuring. Low for sure but you have to remember that this vac supply run's through twists and turns. The better test for this is to check your timing with/without that hose connected. 5 degrees ATDC both hoses connected, @idle about 900-950 rpm, 7.5 BTDC with that Green Hose disconnected and plugged.


HTH
Volkenstein

[jovanybg]

Hello again.
I finally was able to lift the car and replace the garden hose, serving as a vacuum hose with the real one! Now I have all the correct vacuum hoses to/from Vacuum control valve! (on top of that have new SACKS shocks that completely changed the car road behavior)!!!
Unfortunately that didn't help with the hesitation when stopping in gear!
I observed that the problem is present when the car is hot. Yesterday here was 90 F (32 C) and I made a 20 miles trip at the end of which I could see my Generator warning light coming in at every stop. It even stayed on when I came back home and left the car idling. The generator light stays on even so I measured steady  965-978 RPM.
That light never comes on when the car is cold, or even warmed up,idling in the garage?!
The car never stalled at the cross light, but I can hear the hesitation and this generator light really bothers me! It usually comes off when I step a little on a gas pedal, but it stayed on even after doing so...
Another observation - the car starts from the first turn of the ignition key when starting cold, but after a drive (when car is hot) I can start it with turning the starter for about 3-4 or even as long as 10 seconds.
What should I check next in order to find what causes that hesitation?!

[VTghia73]

May be way off, but are your engine rubber seals directing heat to the motor? I'm used to seeing them folded under the tin. Is engine really warm?

[jovanybg]

May be way off, but are your engine rubber seals directing heat to the motor? I'm used to seeing them folded under the tin. Is engine really warm?

Thanks for the advise! I've never thought of that before, but will research how the rubber should be in order to have efficient cooling. I hope the solution of my problem would be so simple - making sure the seal is mounted correctly!!! But it might be the right direction of action, as I really felt the engine was hot after the drive - I could still pull the dipstick, but it nearly burnt my fingers!

[sb001]

Hello again.
I finally was able to lift the car and replace the garden hose, serving as a vacuum hose with the real one! Now I have all the correct vacuum hoses to/from Vacuum control valve! (on top of that have new SACKS shocks that completely changed the car road behavior)!!!
Unfortunately that didn't help with the hesitation when stopping in gear!
I observed that the problem is present when the car is hot. Yesterday here was 90 F (32 C) and I made a 20 miles trip at the end of which I could see my Generator warning light coming in at every stop. It even stayed on when I came back home and left the car idling. The generator light stays on even so I measured steady  965-978 RPM.
That light never comes on when the car is cold, or even warmed up,idling in the garage?!
The car never stalled at the cross light, but I can hear the hesitation and this generator light really bothers me! It usually comes off when I step a little on a gas pedal, but it stayed on even after doing so...
Another observation - the car starts from the first turn of the ignition key when starting cold, but after a drive (when car is hot) I can start it with turning the started for about 3-4 or even as long as 10 seconds.
What should I check next in order to find what causes that hesitation?!

This is the SAME EXACT issue that I am having, I actually came on here to post about it but then saw your thread.
Folks I can tell you that all my hoses are in good shape and I have tried EVERYTHING to keep the car from doing exactly what he is describing here. Key phrase in his post: WHEN IT IS HOT OUTSIDE. Same exact situation here-- it's been around the 90 degree mark in the afternoon the last few days. When I drive to work in the morning no issues at all. Coming home, every single time over the past few days in stop and go traffic, eventually when the engine warms up the idle stopped in gear goes way low, happened again just now pulling into my driveway. I have tried everything including advancing the timing and throttling up the volume and bypass screws on the carb, and adjusting the choke. None of it helps (although at least it didn't stall out on me completely today when I pulled into the driveway!) But if I shift back into neutral, it's fine (actually revs high because of the adjustments I tried.) Put it back into gear and BAM low idle, low enough to make dash lights come on.
Bottom line-- there is a definite correlation between our idle speed in gear and SOMETHING else besides timing/carb tuning. What is it?? Certainly appears to have something to do with the temp outside and/or the engine bay.
I will also include that my 12mm intake manifold-to-control valve is aftermarket non-reinforced, same as his. It's certainly possible that it could be collapsing in on itself, but why would it only happen after the engine is warmed up and hot outside?

[sb001]

May be way off, but are your engine rubber seals directing heat to the motor? I'm used to seeing them folded under the tin. Is engine really warm?

Thanks for the advise! I've never thought of that before, but will research how the rubber should be in order to have efficient cooling. I hope the solution of my problem would be so simple - making sure the seal is mounted correctly!!! But it might be the right direction of action, as I really felt the engine was hot after the drive - I could still pull the dipstick, but it nearly burnt my fingers!

Again same exact situation--engine seems to be running hot for me as well, burn my fingers on the dipstick. But my engine seals are still fairly new and in excellent condition.

[jovanybg]

This is the SAME EXACT issue that I am having, I actually came on here to post about it but then saw your thread.
Folks I can tell you that all my hoses are in good shape and I have tried EVERYTHING to keep the car from doing exactly what he is describing here. Key phrase in his post: WHEN IT IS HOT OUTSIDE. Same exact situation here-- it's been around the 90 degree mark in the afternoon the last few days. When I drive to work in the morning no issues at all. Coming home, every single time over the past few days in stop and go traffic, eventually when the engine warms up the idle stopped in gear goes way low, happened again just now pulling into my driveway. I have tried everything including advancing the timing and throttling up the volume and bypass screws on the carb, and adjusting the choke. None of it helps (although at least it didn't stall out on me completely today when I pulled into the driveway!) But if I shift back into neutral, it's fine (actually revs high because of the adjustments I tried.) Put it back into gear and BAM low idle, low enough to make dash lights come on.
Bottom line-- there is a definite correlation between our idle speed in gear and SOMETHING else besides timing/carb tuning. What is it?? Certainly appears to have something to do with the temp outside and/or the engine bay.
I will also include that my 12mm intake manifold-to-control valve is aftermarket non-reinforced, same as his. It's certainly possible that it could be collapsing in on itself, but why would it only happen after the engine is warmed up and hot outside?

I am hopeful somebody will step up with a suggestion of why that might be happening! I was browsing through Samba forums and found some useful Fuel pump info. Some members have had their aftermarket Fuel Pump swapped to the original, rebuildable one and that took care of the hard start when the car is hot, but nothing about the hesitation...
I observed that the fuel through my fuel filter is bubbling when the car gets hot! Can that be some source of not running at 100% ?!?!  I will try to install a metal fuel line around the doghouse and try to wrap the fuel line under the car with insulation....that might help a bit with the air bubbles in the fuel filter?!
What a fun chasing solutions!!!