Type 3 1776 in a beetle?

buggerfly · 07 March 2008, 07:45

What is the chance of putting a type 3 1776 engine into a beetle? I was told all we have to change out is the dog house and the basic auto stick parts. Any one have any information on this or know if it can be done?

Must Go Faster!!!!!

68autobug · 07 March 2008, 11:49

Hi
The type 3 engine is the same as the engine in My Beetle.
All 1500 engines were the type 3 engine with all the beetle tinware
oil cooler and dipstick etc
so the basic engine is the same
excepting it will have twin carburetors
whether they will fit into the type 1 engine bay I don't know..
they can be made to fit...

they will bolt straight onto your autostick

You will need all the beetle tinware, including alternator stand and alternator with fan, oil cooler and adapter.. and the bottom pulley..

You will need to take the flywheel off the engine and fit the autostick flexplate , which should bolt straight on..

You don't hear of anyone putting a type 3 engine in a Beetle...
but basically they are the same...

but all the accessories are different excepting the distributor and fuel pump.
everything else needs to be changed..

Once you see a type 3 engine next to the type 1 engine You will see all the
tinware etc is different.. its called a suitcase engine as it will fit in a large suitcase ... everything on top is flat...

I hope this answers your question...

I don't have any type 3 books these days..
so all this is from what i can remember..

cheers

Lee

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

bruce_childress · 10 March 2008, 17:13

Quote from: buggerfly on 07 March 2008, 07:45
What is the chance of putting a type 3 1776 engine into a beetle? I was told all we have to change out is the dog house and the basic auto stick parts. Any one have any information on this or know if it can be done?

the block is pretty much the same, the type 3 just moved the fan shroud and generator to the read instead of the top, so everything would work in a vehicle like a stationwagon where someone could crawl in over the motor

so really why would you want to? by the time you pulled off all the tinware and stuff from a type and put on the type 3, why not use the type 1 to begin with?

and i'm un-aware wether the different shroud etc would fit in the engine compartment area of the bug also
bruce

68autobug · 11 March 2008, 01:00

Yes,
its going to cost You a bit of money to replace all those things..

but as I said the block is the same as used in 1500 beetles.
VW never actually made a 1500 engine for the beetle..
they used the type 3 1500 engine in the beetle and type 2s..
the type 3 dipstick hole in the block is covered by a plate underneath the type 1 dipstick...

I have seen type 3s with beetle fan shroud etc in notchbacks/halfbacks
and fastbacks where the cover is left off and the whole rear boot is used as an engine bay... these cars usually have large carburetors or even turbos..

it would be best to ring a VW engine specialist..

Lee

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

buggerfly · 11 March 2008, 14:13

Currently my beetle has a stock 1600 and when my dad builds his 1915 he will be giving me his 1776 to put in my car, that is why i want to switch them out.

68autobug · 12 March 2008, 07:20

Hi
So, Your Dad has a type 3 car and engine...

You or He should be able to take all the tinware etc off Your engine
and re use them on the type 3 engine...

Only thing I don't know, is the dipstick...
My 1500 engine [type 3] has the type 3 dipstick hole
blocked off with a metal plate and two bolts..

above it, the dipstick has a small piece of tube that was inserted in the factory...

now, whether You can just drill a hole and put a dipstick tube in it
I'm not sure...

but thats the only problem i can forsee...

cheers

Lee

buggerfly · 13 March 2008, 22:01

Lee,

Our parts guy told us all we would have to do is get a plate to block the hole where his is and make one for mine and it would work.

Finally got my money, picking the car up this weekend!!!! I can't wait!!!

Bookwus · 14 March 2008, 03:32

Hiya Stephanie,

Be sure to post up some pictures for us!

68autobug · 14 March 2008, 06:22

We can't wait either Stephanie..

I hope you have the camera ready

waiting for pics..

Karmann Cabriolet owner - Stephanie

Best of luck with the purchase Stephanie

very early Karmanns had a " Karmann Kabriolet " badge

Lee

[/b]

buggerfly · 16 March 2008, 15:24

Ok guys, I picked up the car last night. Engine is not ideling, think it may just be water in gas since its been sitting up for a few months. The gears still won't engage. When we went to check the fuses the part for them is not there and we don't know if it was moved or what. I know the guy had driven it prior to the gears not engaging so we don't know what's up with that? Any suggstions on this? Can the fuses be relocated and where?

Help me get my car in GEAR!!!!!!

Bookwus · 16 March 2008, 16:24

Hiya Stephanie,

Hmmmmmm........................ I'l give this a shot.

Water in the gas. Possibly. But know that when you have idling problems the source of those problems is almost always the carburetor. Specifically, three areas of the carb.

1. The electromagnetic idle cut-off valve
2. The idle adjust (and choke)
3. The idle circuit inside the carb

I listed these in order of ease to check/remedy. The idle cut-off valve (it's in differing locations on the carb depending on just what carb you have) will have a wire running back to the positive side of the coil. Be sure that wire is attached cleanly at both ends. A good idea would be to remove the cut-off valve and hook it up to a hot wire. Its plunger should deploy when the cut-off valve is hooked to a hot lead.

Idle adjust can be a bit trickier and this will depend on which carb you have. (Find out which carburetor you are running by looking at the side of the float bowl. It will be on the left hand side of the carb as you look in the engine compartment from the rear of the car. Should say something like Solex 30PICT3. Both the name and number are important). On their website, Rob & Dave have an EXCELLENT procedure for adjusting carbs. Check 'em out at http://www.vw-resource.com/fuellinks.html And don't forget to check over the choke - Rob & Dave can help with that also.

Lastly, the idle circuit of the carburetor could be gunked up. This is especially true of a car that has been sitting for some time. The normal dirt and crud are made that much worse by the tendency of gasoline to varnish and lay down deposits over time. You may need a thorough cleaning and new jets.

Ranges (gears) not engaging? Just exactly what happens when you try, Stephanie? Can you move the gearshift lever? If so, does it grind? Telling us exactly what happens will move us quite a ways down the diagnostic path. Don't spare any words or descriptions.

A couple of things just offhand................ your fuse panel is located under the dash. Pretty hard to move that thing around, so I'm assuming that when you are referring to fuses, you actually mean the in-line fuse to the AS control valve. Look at this picture....

The silver gizmo just to the left of the red coil is the control valve. See the two wires attached to the rear of the control valve? The black one (on the left side of the control valve) leads to an in-line fuse holder. You can see that fuse holder just above the coil in the copper bracket. (There is another fuse holder there also - it's for the back-up lights) So.......find that black wire coming off your control valve. You then trace it until you find the in-line fuse holder. That fuse holder will unscrew to open and you can then check the condition of your fuse.

buggerfly · 16 March 2008, 18:05

Mike,

There is no in-line fuse holder, the black wire(which is now blue and spliced into a yellow wire) is tied into the hot side of the coil.
Yes, the gear shift will move and go into gear when the engine is off, but when the engine is running it grinds. We checked the wire to the gear shift and it has no holes, but it has been spliced and put back together behind the seat and connected to the wring harness.

Bookwus · 16 March 2008, 18:27

Hiya Stephanie,

OK.............for the moment, if you have a hot line to your control valve (more specifically the control valve solenoid) we'll let it go for the now. But you do need to make sure that line has an in-line fuse holder before you start driving the beast around.

Now before I start up with what I'd recommend, let me just say that grinding problems can originate from a couple of different sources. But basically, what is happening is that your clutch is not being fully disengaged. It's exactly the same as if you tried to shift a manual transmission without depressing the clutch pedal.

I think you should first make sure your electrical system that controls shifting is working. That system runs from the shift contact points (inside the shift lever) back to the control valve solenoid. A little insight as to how the electricity runs through the wires in this system.........remember that black wire in the picture above? It draws 12v from the positive side of the coil, runs those 12v through an in-line fuse and into the control valve solenoid. The control valve solenoid is HOT all the time. But it will only function if the shift lever contact points are touching and creating a ground.

So......first thing to do is to check and make sure that the control valve solenoid is getting 12v. Then check the ground wire (that's the brown one in the picture above) to make sure it is conducting a ground when the shift lever is moved.

If you do have 12v to the control valve AND you do have a good ground when the shift lever is moved, then you need to pull your control valve solenoid off the control valve (it's held on by four screws and under some spring pressure) and make sure it is functioning. If its plunger pops out when you apply 12v and a ground, it is good, and your shifting problem will be found elsewhere. But at the very least, you'll know that your electrical system (except for that missing in-line fuse) is in good operating condition.

But let's go back to the shift lever for a moment. If you cannot get a ground when the shift lever is moved, you will have to adjust the gap in the shift lever points. Not a hard job, but we'll save the procedure for adjusting the gap until you report back on how you're doing.

buggerfly · 27 March 2008, 05:59

Hey guys,

Here's the latest news on the car:

It is currently in the shop and getting fixed. The shifting problem was the solenoid, it was bad and the in-line fuses have been replaced and I also had them hook up a cigarette lighter for my cell phone charger. Then we found out that the master cylinder is bad and the brake lines have air bubbles in them, so that issue is getting fixed. I got the title transfered and current tags today so the last thing to do is install the seat belts and get it inspected and it'll be legal and I'll be driving around with the top down. Hoping to get it back by Friday, our first show is Saturday in Nacogdoches, Texas and I was hoping to have it there.

Lee,

Can you give me the title and author of the book you were giving me all of the details on the Karmann convertibles from? I would like to see if I can locate here, e-mail the info to me.

Thanks for all of yalls help with the trouble shooting, good to know there are people out there who are willing to help fellow Volkswagen owners.

I will put up pics as soon as I get the car home again and get it cleaned up.

buggerfly · 29 March 2008, 06:30

Well, it seems we have run into yet another snag with the car.

I picked it up today and drove it home, ran and shifted great until we got about 5 blocks from our house, then it died. The fuel pump is out and we are not sure of the other problem yet. When I turn the key nothing happens, the starter relay clicks but that is it. I was told it could be the voltage regulator, any suggestions on this?