Autostick will not go into gear

Autonaut · 08 June 2007, 11:21

My 1968 VW 1500 Automatic recently decided to quit on me. The Autostick seems to be the problem. Everything seems fine when idling inn free gear, but attempts to shift into any gear result in the scraping sound people unfamiliar with stick shift make.
I put the car in a garage, but they can?t figure it out, so hints on what could be the cause of the problem will be greatly appreciated.

Bookwus · 08 June 2007, 17:07

Hiya Auto,

The first thing you need to understand is that shifting in an AutoStick is an ELECTRICAL function with a VACUUM assist. The grinding you are hearing indicates that you are most likely having problems with the electrical or vacuum components in your shifting "system". Do also know that your actual transmission is not likely to be the source of your problems. It is very hardy and not prone to breakdown if it is reasonably maintained.

The second thing to know is that VERY FEW garage mechanics know anything about AutoSticks. In fact, unless you know that your mechanic has AutoStick experience, take anything he/she says with a large grain of salt.

So, what does all this mean? Check out your electrical shift components as follows..........
1. Make sure the in-line fuse to the control valve is intact and functioning.
2. Make sure that the control valve solenoid is properly connected and the contacts are bright and shiny.
3. Make sure that the connection from the shift lever under the rear seat is connected.
4. Make sure that the line (it should be blue if original) coming from the bottom of the shift lever is intact. It can lose insulation at the point where it exits the shift lever and ground out.
5. Make sure the points inside the shift lever are in good shape and properly gapped.
6. Crawl under the car and make sure that the connections for your nuetral safety switch and overheat switch are bright and shiny.

If you still have the grinding problem at this point you will need to.........
1. Remove the control valve solenoid and test it for function.
2. Inspect your wiring runs for fraying and possible shorts.

That will cover the electricals. Checking the vacuum will involve..............

1. Inspect the hoses leading to the control valve. All large hoses (3 of them) should be wire reinforced so they will not collapse when the engine is running and creating a vacuum. Check for that.
2. Check the connections for all the hoses including the small hose from the control valve which leads over to the carburetor.
3. This step will be a bit difficult, but........check the function of your clutch servo. The actual checking is very easy, but the servo is hard to get to.

Still grinding?

1. Pull your Vacuum Assist Tank and check for leakage

Now, after all this I'm betting that you will have found the source of your problem. In fact, I'd guess that you'll find the source of your problem pretty early in the above list. But if you have not, then you'll need to look at adjusting your clutch freeplay.

In the interests of bandwidth I've not included the "how-to" for any of the above steps. To do any of this you'll need to do two things. Get yourself a Bentley Manual - it will detail any of the above steps. And check back here with any questions you may have. This is a great resource for an AutoStick owner - make sure you take advantage of it.

Autonaut · 09 June 2007, 11:01

Thank you for a most excellent reply. I have now ordered the Bentley book, plus the few spare parts available at Cip1 just to have them ready if needed. I look forward to look into it myself, though I have no experience working on the autostick.

Bookwus · 09 June 2007, 20:24

Hiya Auto,

Don't sweat it! You'll do fine.

The Bentley is, by far, the best manual for AutoStick related work. However, it does tend to be a bit technical and it does assume that you have a base of knowledge and often assumes that you have the correct tools. In other words, even with the Bentley, you can get stumped. That's why this forum is here. When you run up against it, bring your problems, frustrations, and questions here. I'm not saying that we can guarantee an answer, but we can probably work through it and get you on the right track. There are folks here who have already been down that path, so there is no need to "reinvent the wheel".

Finally, do make a habit of checking in and keeping us up-to-date. Especially on what works for you and what doesn't. That helps to educate the rest of us so we can help the next guy.

Jack-the-Bug · 09 June 2007, 21:30

I am gonna get me a Bentley book as well.
Excellent replies in this thread very helpful to me as well
Thanks

And it's actually cheaper to get things from CIP and get them to post to the UK

Rhodrich · 12 January 2008, 22:17

I've got exactly the same problem with my new '68

I suspect a microswitch problem. With the ignition on (engine not running), I can hear the control valve clicking when I rock the gearstick, but only when the car is in gear. If the car is in neutral, rocking the gearstick does nothing.

Should the control valve click when rocking the gearstick when it's in neutral?

Thanks!

volkenstein · 13 January 2008, 01:02

Rodrich,
Yes it should. Sounds like the contact point and upper gearstick need a clean/adjust.

Regards
Volkenstein

Rhodrich · 13 January 2008, 17:46

Right. I still have problems, and I'm not sure what to look for now....

Gearstick contacts work fine, and servo works fine - I can see that with the engine running, the clutch lever is pulled in. I've used a test lamp to check that the control valve is getting the right inputs from the gearstick, and it is:
Control valve actuated when car is in neutral (so clutch lever pulled in)
With the car in gear, the control valve is not actuated (clutch lever out)
Rock the gearstick forward or back, when the car is in gear, and the control valve is actuated (clutch lever pulled in)

Checking with a separate wire on the control valve terminal 31 to temporarily earth it (as the microswitch would do), the clutch lever can be pulled in and out, suggesting no problems with the vacuum side of things.

I've adjusted the servo pushrod according to spec. Car will go into gear with the engine off

So - electrical side of things is fine, vacuum side of things is fine, so why won't the car go into gear with the engine running? All I can think of is that a clutch fork may have broken, or the t/o bearing may have broken up.

Does anyone have any other ideas before I pull the engine to have a look, only to find that whatever has broken is unobtainable.....

Thanks

Rhodrich · 13 January 2008, 20:03

If it helps, there is resistance when I manually pull in the clutch control arm (vacuum hose off), so it does feel like the clutch pressure plate is being depressed (I can't actually pull it in by hand, there's so much resistance) I'm stumped. Highly unlikely that the clutch disc is worn out - the car has done 60,000 miles from new. Unlikely that the clutch disc is stuck - the car was driving fine until 2 weeks ago, when it just stopped shifting all of a sudden. Unlikely that it's gearbox internals, as it goes into gear fine with the engine off.

What else could it possibly be? I have a feeling that even if I pull the engine, I'm not going to see anything wrong...

volkenstein · 14 January 2008, 13:03

Rhodrich,
A couple of things..

How did you adjust the servo pushrod and by how much? Are we talking clutch freeplay adjustment here?

How do you know the clutch arm is moving? Are you looking at it while someone else tries while it is up on stands or some such?

Lee has had a loose clutch arm pinch bolt. You might want to check it's buttoned up to spec or hasn't fatigue failed.

I don't think it would be a gear fork as you wouldn't be able to get a positive shift even with the engine off. Ditto for the T-O bearing..it's huge and if there was a problem you'd hear it! A broken clutch arm fork? Possible..although that seems remote. I know of no-one who has done that on a semi-auto. Mike? Lee? with your years of semi-auto experiences, ever hear of one or both the forks snapping off the shaft?

Last thing I can ask is..what happened the last time it shifted? Parked the car and walked away and next thing no shifting?

HTH
Volkenstein

Rhodrich · 14 January 2008, 13:29

Quote from: volkenstein on 14 January 2008, 13:03
Rhodrich,
A couple of things..

How did you adjust the servo pushrod and by how much? Are we talking clutch freeplay adjustment here?

How do you know the clutch arm is moving? Are you looking at it while someone else tries while it is up on stands or some such?

Lee has had a loose clutch arm pinch bolt. You might want to check it's buttoned up to spec or hasn't fatigue failed.

I don't think it would be a gear fork as you wouldn't be able to get a positive shift even with the engine off. Ditto for the T-O bearing..it's huge and if there was a problem you'd hear it! A broken clutch arm fork? Possible..although that seems remote. I know of no-one who has done that on a semi-auto. Mike? Lee? with your years of semi-auto experiences, ever hear of one or both the forks snapping off the shaft?

Last thing I can ask is..what happened the last time it shifted? Parked the car and walked away and next thing no shifting?

HTH
Volkenstein

I've adjusted up the servo pushrod such that there is 4mm of thread in view when the release arm is pushed back towards the bell housing (vacuum pipe off). The pushrod seems to be as short as it can be (as I want to be sure that the clutch is being depressed)

I know the clutch arm is moving as I've started the engine with the car jacked up, and have observed that the arm is fully pulled into the servo when the car is in neutral. I've also run a temporary ground wire to terminal 31 on the control valve, and can pull the arm in and out when that temporary wire is grounded. From using a test light, I can see that terminal 31 on the CV is getting the right inputs from the gear stick. I've even run the test wire to permanently ground terminal 31 (so the clutch is depressed), and tried shifting then, but it still won't go into gear, even though I can see with my own eyes that the clutch release arm is pulled fully into the clutch servo.

It was running and shifting fine, until about 1/2 a mile from home, it stopped shifting smoothly. Managed to get it into gear by matching engine speeds (using the syncromesh on the gearbox, as you would shift without using a clutch on a manual), to bring it home, but as soon as it stopped, it wouldn't go into any gear, suggesting that the clutch is not disengaging.

I would imagine if the clutch pinch bolt had come loose, there wouldn't be any resistance on the clutch release arm when I pulled it back into the servo (vacuum hose off), when there is a great deal of resistance, suggesting that the clutch is being depressed. I've tried feeling where the pinch bolt is, and I can't feel any movement there, but I'll try and have a look using a shaving mirror.

I've had clutch release forks snap on a manual bug before, and there was no resistance on the clutch pedal - it just fell to the floor, so I don't think it's that either.

I just can't think what it might be otherwise, unless the clutch plate has somehow glued itself to the torque convertor, or something's gone bad in the transmission itself. Very, very odd indeed.

I have been offered another scrap '68 AS with a good transmission, so I might swap that in. It's 200 miles away though, so I'm currently trying to see if I can get it transported.

In the meantime, if anyone can think of anything I may have missed, please let me know.

Many thanks for your help everyone.

Bookwus · 14 January 2008, 18:58

Hiya Rho,

I've been following this thread and you have some good advice from Sean. Also, it sounds to me that you know your way around cars and have taken a sound, methodical approach to the problem. As we go on, it's looking more and more like the problem is inside the bellhousing.

However, one piece of advice...............if you have not already done so, pull the oval inspection plate atop the rear of the central tunnel and take a good look at your shift coupler. Given your symptoms, it's just possible that your shift coupler could be slipping. In any event, it's so easy to check that it's worth the time to do it. And, if it saves you an engine pull................

Best of luck!

Rhodrich · 14 January 2008, 21:13

Have checked coupling now. There's a bit of play in it (and I suspect the shift rod bush needs replacement), but neither of these I believe would be serious enough to warrant the problems I'm facing. I had a '64 manual bug a while ago that occasionally wouldn't go into second gear due to a worn coupling, but it didn't crunch when I tried to put it in gear, it just refused to even move into position, and just went into 4th instead.

With the engine off, my AS shifts into all gears, and I know it goes into reverse as the reverse lights come on. Turn the engine on, and it grinds

Looking more and more like a clutch issue, but I cannot think of anything that would prevent a clutch disengaging, except if it was rusted, and that only happens when a car has been standing for a long time.

I guess if the clutch disc had disintegrated, there's a possibility that this could cause seizure, but I've never heard of this happening.

volkenstein · 15 January 2008, 03:00

Rhodrich,
A couple of thoughts. Do you know the history of the vehicle? Heaven forbid if a PO listened to a dealer saying "stick it in top and drive all day!!!". That might have accelerated plate wear. Grinding is usually associated clutch problems if not with electrical/vacuum problems, which you've already eliminated. How about this, is your servo bracket flexing/moving when you actuate the solenoid? That is cheaper than my next suggestion which is to re-set your servo rod to stock initial measurements as well as re-setting your clutch arm on it's shaft. There is a thread, "another autostick problem" started by dfrommi that has pics and instructions for doing this. PITA, but it's your time/effort and not your wallet for the moment

HTH
Volkenstein

Rhodrich · 16 January 2008, 18:51

Quote from: volkenstein on 15 January 2008, 03:00
Rhodrich,
A couple of thoughts. Do you know the history of the vehicle? Heaven forbid if a PO listened to a dealer saying "stick it in top and drive all day!!!". That might have accelerated plate wear. Grinding is usually associated clutch problems if not with electrical/vacuum problems, which you've already eliminated. How about this, is your servo bracket flexing/moving when you actuate the solenoid? That is cheaper than my next suggestion which is to re-set your servo rod to stock initial measurements as well as re-setting your clutch arm on it's shaft. There is a thread, "another autostick problem" started by dfrommi that has pics and instructions for doing this. PITA, but it's your time/effort and not your wallet for the moment

HTH
Volkenstein

The car has one previous owner (I even have a picture of her posing with the car when it was new!), and 101,000KM from new. That said, I'm not sure how she drove it....

The servo bracket is not flexing - I'm pretty sure of that.

I've arranged to go and pick up this donor car on Saturday, so will just swap the engine and box from that one into mine (that's a 1500, and mine's only a 1300, so a bit of a performance increase as well!). For the price the donor has been offered to me, this seems to be the easiest option - I should be able to part out the rest of the car to get most of my money back, and still give me a supply of spare parts.

I will be sure to find out what caused the problem once the old box is out.

Final question (for now) - I live in the UK, and there doesn't appear to be a UK supplier of torque convertor seals. Is it possible to split the engine and gearbox without having to replace this?