no first range(second gear)

74soup · 31 March 2009, 00:18

ok, ive tried movin the shift plate several times, with no change. ive even tried shifting while the plate is loose to try and find first and still no luck. is it possible that first is just not there anymore? when i first got this thing running, i did have the gear. but even when it was there it seemed like the clutch was slipping real bad until it caught, but like i said, it was there. is there anything special i need to know about the spring? could the shift rod be worn out? is the hockey stick ok? i have worn myself out trying to fix this, and my patience are running out. its a shame too, because this car is in such great shape.

volkenstein · 31 March 2009, 13:16

74,
Couple of things..as has been mentioned, these transmissions tend not to have the rate of expiry that manual ones do. Yes they can and do fail but it isn't common. We're trying to examine all possibilities on your behalf so you're not faced with pulling the box and going shopping for a second hand one. It still may come to that though....

Shift rod worn? The one in the tunnel? Doubt it as you can get most gears. Hockey stick? The same answer. R1/R2 are on the same internal shift rod and R1 is pushed INTO the gearbox for selection, R2 pulled OUT.

R1/R2 are however using a common synchro assembly which may be a dud....a lot of brass shavings on the drain plate would be cause for alarm. R1/R2 selector fork could be completely knackered too...

So..If R1 is the problem yet you can get all other gears...it all sounds like a P.O. tried something bright with the stop plate and re-installed it incorrectly. A bit worrying is the no-push-for-reverse. IIRC I think the same pretty much has to happen to get "Park"

Have you tried running the R1 gear with the shifter in place but no stop plate installed? Be careful trying this. Although the interlock mechanism is supposed to prevent dual engagement, locking the shift rods seems to occur.

What about the "Park" position? Your box should have this function if the G'box is original to the car.

Trans mount OK?? (the finest straw clutching now

)

I'll ponder some more and if the 5 watt bulb comes on again, I'll post up. In the meantime, fix your flagging spirits with some unhealthy sized slugs of "mother's ruin"...I can understand the frustration, but as I've said to others...walk away for a while, clear the head, hook back into it and if it comes to naught so be it.

Regards
Volkenstein

74soup · 31 March 2009, 13:33

again, last night i tried moving the plate around with no results. i have not tried taking the shift plate out completely. i will give that a try next. i do have park, and i do have to push down to get it there. i am planning on dropping the drain plate shortly to check for shavings. if i do find something in there, is there anyone out there who sells parts for this thing? this is just so frustrating. i have already dropped a lot of coin on this thing, but i really like the car and would love to get it right.

volkenstein · 31 March 2009, 13:47

74,
Luckily the internals are pretty much the same as a manual box. The real problem is some seals are NLA so the shop of your choice had best be careful taking it apart. Coin is up to you. You'll never get a 100% fully reco unit because of said seals so price may be determined on your negotiating skills. From what I read on other forums, places like Longenterprises, German Transaxles (chat with them) etc are a good bet. EVWPARTS will do one (they have a core charge) for 695.00 .

TheSamba classifieds for a second hand one?. Russ Wolfe has made mention he has Autostick stuff, he may have a '74 lying around. I can't remember their usernames, but Nampa, Idaho or Ashland, Nebraska fellas have a fair bit lying around. Risky, but you may get away with a good 'un and have a fatter wallet...

HTH
Volkenstein

74soup · 31 March 2009, 14:00

also i have not yet changed out the tranny mount. could this also be causing me problems?

Bookwus · 31 March 2009, 21:07

Hiya 74,

Quote from: volkenstein on 31 March 2009, 13:16 .......these transmissions tend not to have the rate of expiry that manual ones do. Yes they can and do fail but it isn't common. We're trying to examine all possibilities on your behalf so you're not faced with pulling the box and going shopping for a second hand one. It still may come to that though....

That's an important thought to keep in mind. We're trying to get you out of your situation without having to do anything too drastic - if conditions warrant. You may wind up pulling that tranny, but it has been our experience here at VWAR that this is most often not needed. We want to make sure you have checked out all the more likely (and easier to fix) possibilities before you ever have to get into the case. The downside of this is that it takes patience. Sometimes a lot of patience - adjusting that *%#@* shift plate can be a bear. Hang in there.

While the tranny mount could be causing problems in locating ranges (and it is most certainly worth checking out!) it is not the most probable cause of such problems.

74soup · 31 March 2009, 23:46

ok, i am getting ready to start moving the plate around again. is there any good starting point that i should be aware of?

volkenstein · 01 April 2009, 00:42

'74,
The Bentley Bibles & others say to select "L" first, verifying that the gearstick is aligned with the centre of the tunnel, but tilted back slightly. I have never adjusted a stop plate but I would imagine the next port of call would be R1.

Mike in particular has had more fun 'n' games in this regard due to "oddities" he discovered with his gearstick shift rod.

Just on that rod, if the trans is in neutral where does the "cup" sit in relation to the gearstick hole??

Oh, I would also drop the spring off near the shifter coupling if one is fitted (use looped wire..don't want that sucker dropping off it's little bracket inside the pan!!).
No point doing finicky adjustments while the spring is pulling the shift rod toward R1/R2 constantly....

HTH
Volkenstein

Bookwus · 01 April 2009, 01:34

Hiya 74,

You have probably already figured out this out for yourself, but if not......................

Since the pivot point of the gear shift lever is above the shift plate that means the actual position of the shift lever ball in the shift rod cup will be the exact opposite of where the shift lever knob is. For example, when you have shifted into Low the cup on the shift rod is forward and to the right. Takes a minute or two to visualize, but once you have that down it can help you with doing adjustments to the shift plate.

74soup · 01 April 2009, 02:30

i am going to check out the cup in relation to the shifter hole tomorrow. 6 month old baby boy takes first priority over 35 year old vw. if you can think of anything else till then, feel free to fill me in.

74soup · 02 April 2009, 00:37

ive had it with this pos. i moved the shift plate every possible direction.what else do i have to do? when i move the shift rod without the shifter installed, it looks as though it turns farther than the shifter would allow. is it really that hard to find second gear after that shift plate has been moved? i have taken the plate out completely, and moved the shifter in every possible direction, still nothing. no second gear sux. is it possible that something else needs to be adjusted outside of the shifter mechanism itself? clutch freeplay? whatever? i think i am going to stick a toothpick in my eye now and break it off. i think that would be much more fun than working on this problem.

volkenstein · 02 April 2009, 01:07

'74,
The stop plate limits travel so you are able to select gears accurately. I have been thinking maybe a P.O. at some point cursed you by grabbing whatever stop plate and bunging it in. You say you've tried it out without the plate and still no joy...the only thing I can think of is the shift rod itself. I see that "joncron" has joined up. He owns a '74 A-S but converting to manual. I PM'd him on TheSamba to ask various questions including shift rod length...no answer thus far. Re-reading the posts up to this point..just one question - you keep saying "First". Do you mean "L" , the gear that is pull-left-then-pull-down or "R1" which is push-right-push-up?

Anyway...it is definitely sounding nastier..the only suggestion I have left is to drop the shift rod off the coupler and then try and select all gears. If you can't find them all like that...deffo have internal problems...then

Given Joncron is converting a '74 A-S, could be a good time to pick up his box?

Regards
Volkenstein

74soup · 02 April 2009, 01:47

what is really blowing my mind, is that i had the gear prior to all of this madness,and it just disappeared. that is why i am leaning toward a problem in the tranny itself. when i did have the gear, as i stated prior, it felt like the clutch was slipping before it would engage. then it would be fine. but it was in second gear only. second meaning r1 not L not r2, up and to the right. i am thinking that joncron is making a smart move.

volkenstein · 02 April 2009, 02:00

'74,
Up to you. Head on over to TheSamba in the late model bug forum and inside the "index to interesting tech articles" sticky post there is a link to A-S to 4 Speed conversion which will tell you all you need to know (and buy).

Regards
Volkenstein

74soup · 02 April 2009, 02:25

i will figure out what is wrong with this thing before i decide on a swap. i am just very frustrated, and i feel like i have made every adjustment possible. i just dropped the shift rod from the hockey stick, and i think i did find my lost gear, but i am not quite sure. could it be my shift rod?