no first range(second gear)

74soup · 23 April 2009, 23:31

ok, it is confirmed that there is no fluid going back to tank from the converter. i also took off the hose between the pump and the torque converter, and i blew through it with my air compressor. now when i did this, it felt like it was clogged up, but i eventually did here air at the atf tank. i was putting a lot of pressure through this hose. is that normal, or should it flow freely?

volkenstein · 24 April 2009, 12:06

'74,
You disconnected at the trans AND the tinware, ie took it off? And it's clogged? If not, what exactly is disconnected when you blow air through?

The hoses should be free and clear of ANY clogging, regardless.

If at all possible, try not to send more than 50 psi through the system. 52 is max pressure that the TC seal should deal with.

X2 for Green's advice.

Let us know what happens.

Regards
Volkenstein

74soup · 24 April 2009, 13:35

what needs to be done if the release arm did come off the bearing during installation?

Bookwus · 24 April 2009, 14:15

Hiya 74,

I'm guessing that, from the way in which your question is worded, the clutch arm and its pivot shaft were not marked prior to its removal. If that is the case then you'll have to do a bit of "guess work" and use the clutch freeplay adjusting sleeve to tweak and fine tune the clutch adjustment.

The guess work...... The clutch arm needs to go on the pivot shaft so that it is angled out towards the inspection window on the left side of the transmission. Take a look at this borrowed picture......

You also need to understand that the clutch arm needs to be in position so that the clutch adjusting rod needs to be pulled out in order to engage it. In other words, install the clutch servo in place. Then position the clutch arm on the pivot so that the connecting eye on the end of the clutch arm is about 1 inch forward of the end of the clutch servo adjusting rod. This will put the proper tension on the clutch servo adjusting rod (and its internals).

Once you get everything up and running you will have to come back to the clutch servo adjusting rod and adjust the clutch freeplay.

74soup · 24 April 2009, 15:40

the clutch arm was never removed from the trans. when i removed it. i only removed the servo. my #1 question is why do i not have flow back to tank from my t/c? i have tried adjusting the clutch freeplay with no effect at all on the problem. it still revs really high before the car will move.

Bookwus · 24 April 2009, 17:42

Hiya 74,

Whoops! Looks like I misread your previous post.

Insofar as the blockage goes..............were it me, I'd remove the return hose and check it out. By the way, replacements for that hose are not hard to find.

74soup · 24 April 2009, 18:14

is it possible that while the engine was off, the t/c was somehow not aligned properly which might not allow fluid to flow properly? like i stated previously, the t/c did move off of the transmission some allowing the loss of a considerable amount of fluid.

Bookwus · 24 April 2009, 18:58

Hiya 74,

Is it possible? Well, I guess just about anything is possible. But............assuming that the torque converter is in its proper position now, it's very unlikely there is a blockage in the flow at that point. Much more likely is that the torque converter seal should be replaced.

In the case of a blockage back to the ATF tank, the prime suspect would be the return hose. These rubber pressure hoses fail from the inside out just as a rubber brake line hose would. Petro based products like ATF or brake fluid will eventually get the better of rubber. They will look absolutely normal on the outside but the swelling of material closes off the inside diameter restricting the flow of fluid. Better than "possible" I would think that this would be probable.

74soup · 24 April 2009, 19:02

i will pull off the hoses and check again, and will be posting later on the results. it is strange, because it all worked before i swapped out the gear cluster. well, everything except 1sr range that is.

greenghia · 25 April 2009, 02:18

Hey 74soup, If you have pressure and no return flow to the tank then a couple of things are possible. Make sure(again) that anything you used to keep the hoses from pouring fluid when you removed the engine have been removed. I remember someone who went quite some time before rechecking and that was the problem all along. (I have used lots of different ways of keeping the fluid in... Plastic bags, rubber plugs, golf tees , pencils etc and any of those left in the line will obstruct the flow). Second is to be sure that the hoses are connected to the trans correctly. Banjo bolts and sealing washers. I can't remember at this time but I think you could reverse those lines and that would prevent return while still having pressure(pump trying to fill the t/c while the t/c works against the pump). So make sure those are properly reconnected and let us know what comes up. Good luck again.

greenghia · 25 April 2009, 02:25

As far as the t/c not going back in place, either the engine would not meet up with the transmission or the t/c rotor could be bound on the input shaft of the trans which would strip the input shaft and possible the t/c rotor(inside piece of the t/c,, may not be proper name for the vw). Neither of these would cause a lack of return flow. So making sure that the lines are going to the proper places is my best guess, secondly something left in the line. Don't give up on it, you will figure it out!

Bookwus · 25 April 2009, 02:31

Hiya green,

Quote from: greenghia on 25 April 2009, 02:18 ........I can't remember at this time but I think you could reverse those lines and that would prevent return while still having pressure(pump trying to fill the t/c while the t/c works against the pump). So make sure those are properly reconnected and let us know what comes up. Good luck again.

Well, no worry on that account. The bolts holding the ATF lines to the bellhousing are different sizes. Pretty cool of VW to do that. But you are mucho correct about the washers. It may well be possible to obstruct the flow of ATF by misplacing washers. Dunno for sure, but it would seem that placing the thick washer (or more) on the bolt end might obstruct the ATF passage. It's also possible that the insides of the bolt have filled with accumulated crud. I'm still thinking return hose.

greenghia · 25 April 2009, 03:56

Thanks Bookwus for clearing that up. My memory is so bad it is scary! Would it be possible to connect the other ends to the wrong place? Maybe with replacement hoses of the wrong length or are the fittings different there too? Just cant remember and it is really dark outside.

Bookwus · 25 April 2009, 06:14

Hiya green,

Quote from: greenghia on 25 April 2009, 03:56 ......Would it be possible to connect the other ends to the wrong place?

Hmmm....maybe. Dunno for sure. But if that were possible I'd think you'd have one really tight hose and one really loose hose.

74soup · 27 April 2009, 21:23

took both supply and return hoses off today. no blockage in either hose. not sure about the washers on the fittings, if i recall there was only one washer on each fitting when i took it all apart. i have tried different washers with no sucess so far. does anyone sell these washers or does someone in vw land have an extra set?