Hoping someone might have some input. I have a trike with an autostick in it. Love it!!!! BUT it leaks out about a tablespoon of tranny fluid everytimg I shut the engine down. It doesn't leak while it is running, no matter how long it runs. Just took it on a 3500 mile trip and it leaked a total of about 1/2 quart. I have replaced the torque converter seal twice now with no improvement. It is like the return line to the resovoir is leaking once the engine is shut down but the leak seems to be coming from inside the bellhousing. The leak is the same whether the engine has been running for 2 minutes or 2 hours. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks (BTW - great site)
Hiya Jim,
Welcome to the site!
I have only been involved with leaks of this general nature a few times and they were all traced out to the TC seal. But since you have replaced that seal (twice!) that's likely not to be the problem (but don't close the door on that possibility).
I'm wondering if the shaft bushing might be responsible for this sort of leak. Sean (Volkenstein) has a much better knowledge of that part of the AS anatomy than I do. Perhaps he'll jump into this conversation.
Thanks for the thoughts. I hate leaks and am determined to find this one. When I pull the motor, the inside of the bellhousing looks dry as does the torque converter. Has to be coming out of there somewhere, as it appears to be running out the front on the bellhousing between the tranny and motor. Finally got a VW motor so it doesn't leak a drop of oil and now this. Thinking about installing a check valve in the return line to the resovoir to see if that stops the problem. Don't know if the return line would hold enough fluid to over fill the torque converter or not but that is sure what it seems like.
That is really an odd one...
only suggestion I can come up with is that maybe the torque converter seal's lip is being damaged??
do You lubricate the torque converter oil seal with ATF
to stop any premature wear???
Lee in Australia
Can't say that I did lubricate the lip of the seal, perhaps that is the problem but I would think, if the lip was damaged, it would leak while the motor was running, not after it is shut down. Perhaps I am all wet in that thinking as the garage floor is all wet too (smile). Do you happen to know if the oil system is vented? My thinking is that perhaps the cap is supposed to be vented and the vent is clogged causing pressure in the system. I have owned several AS in the past and have never had a leaking problem. Not one that I couldn't cure anyway. Thanks for your help.
Quote from: HillbillyJim on 11 September 2010, 10:51
Can't say that I did lubricate the lip of the seal, perhaps that is the problem but I would think, if the lip was damaged, it would leak while the motor was running, not after it is shut down. Perhaps I am all wet in that thinking as the garage floor is all wet too (smile). Do you happen to know if the oil system is vented? My thinking is that perhaps the cap is supposed to be vented and the vent is clogged causing pressure in the system. I have owned several AS in the past and have never had a leaking problem. Not one that I couldn't cure anyway. Thanks for your help.
Hi
I don't think it would leak when the engine isn't running either as there isn't any pressure then..
I don't think the cap is vented either... [maybe it is??]
the fluid is just pumped round and round..
and I would certainly think it would leak with the engine running.....!!
and leak much much more with the engine running...!!
that has Me stumped.....
LEE
HillBillyJim,
Hmm...after your description, how does the front of the engine look (front = front of vehicle)? I smell a front main seal problem because the BH & TC are clean & you've done the seal (peined I hope!) twice. There is also a hole in the BG side of the BH to let stray oil drain from the support tube seal. A last thought, if the oil isn't cherry coloured, I'd deffo look at the engine front main.
HTH
Volkenstein
Thanks for the input guys. Usually my first thought would be a front seal leak too but this is definitely an ATF leak. It doesn't pool like oil would, it flattens out and a few drops makes one heck of a mess. It is reddish in color and doesn't have the body of motor oil either. Pretty much the consistancy of water when you rub it between your fingers. I am still suspicious of the return line to the reservoir. Perhaps there is a pin hole in it letting the fluid leak off when it is sitting or perhaps the brass washers on the fitting aren't holding. Going to change all that out and see if it improves. When I find the leak, I will let you know and then we will all know the next time someone has this problem. Thanks again. It is always nice to talk with someone that has some knowledge on the problem you are having.
Jim,
You could grab some dye to help in your search for the leak. I suspect a trans shop (pick any old V8 auto trans place) might have some. What year is the trans, do you know? It could be leaking as well from any of the copper washers that attach to the BH. In/Out hoses as well as the temp sender(s).
Just a thought
Volkenstein
Quote from: HillbillyJim on 12 September 2010, 10:55
Thanks for the input guys. Usually my first thought would be a front seal leak too but this is definitely an ATF leak. It doesn't pool like oil would, it flattens out and a few drops makes one heck of a mess. It is reddish in color and doesn't have the body of motor oil either. Pretty much the consistancy of water when you rub it between your fingers. I am still suspicious of the return line to the reservoir. Perhaps there is a pin hole in it letting the fluid leak off when it is sitting or perhaps the brass washers on the fitting aren't holding. Going to change all that out and see if it improves. When I find the leak, I will let you know and then we will all know the next time someone has this problem. Thanks again. It is always nice to talk with someone that has some knowledge on the problem you are having.
Hi
but its still a mystery why its leaking when the engine isn't going...
no pressure from the pump....??
normally, a leak or seep will get worse when the engine is going.... ATF under pressure..
it is best to replace the ATF hoses then You know You won';t have any leaks
but I hate those banjo bolts and the pipe fittings...
they have to be done up Very tight....
LEE
I didn't mean to say the ATF isn't leaking while the engine is running, it just doesn't appear to get worse. You would think that it would worsen with the engine running if it was part of the pressurized system. That is why I asked if the system was vented. If it wasn't vented, the entire system would be pressurized. Without being pressurized, the only real pressure you would have is between the pump and the torque converter as the pump is gravity fed and the return line is "open-ended" causing no pressure there. A leak in the line going to the pump and the return line to the reservoir would continue as long as there was ATF in the line and probably wouldn't get any worse even if the engine was running. Maybe my thinking is all wrong but it seems logical to me and I have convinced myself to check out the lines and fittings. Couple more questions though. Where can I get the copper washers for the banjo fittings and what would happen if the system ran low of fluid? I would think that the torque converter wouldn't lock up and slip similar to a clutch slipping. Thanks guys and my garage floor is going to thank you when I get this problem cured.
Well...
this one has Me puzzled...
usually a leak will get worse when the engine is going... with pressure..
so, You may be correct in that its in the return line.. where the ATF is dumped into the tank...
I don't know what happens when there isn't enough ATF.??
Your torque converter may score the bushing it sits on with no lubrication..
although the ATF drives the Torque converter
ATF pump may also be damaged with no lubricant
there wouldn't be any pressure in the return ATF line back to the tank
so maybe one of the banjo bolts is leaking
You may be able to find a sealing washer for the banjo bolt at a truck or hydraulics shop
copper or aluminium - would need to be a perfect fit
best of luck
Lee in Australia
Hiya Jim,
About the washers..............
These guys are NLA as new. However, as Lee mentioned you can go to a hydraulics shop and get a replacement washer(s). Do be aware though that the only thing available these days is aluminum crush washers - no copper (at least none that I could find). And the aluminum washers may have to be doubled up to match the thickness of the thicker washer. When I was in your situation I looked over the new aluminum stuff (and bought it - they're pretty cheap) but really didn't like what I was seeing. So, after thinking over for a while, I visited a boneyard and found the originals still in place on an AS tranny. I got those and used 'em. Just like downtown! Hasn't leaked a drop.
All of which makes me think........... It MIGHT be possible that you have a leak at the banjo fitting of the return ATF line at the bellhousing. This leak would then drip into the "window" (and consequently into the bellhousing) just below the connection point. You would then have ATF leaking (apparently) from the bottom of the bellhousing. That's just a thought. But if that is the case the ATF would have to be leaking pretty fast at that connection. So, a couple of questions.............
1. Have you checked the area around the ATF lines at the bellhousing for signs of a leak?
2. Did this leak just suddenly appear on its own? Might it have followed work on the tranny? Does it seem to be getting worse?
3. Are you sure the ATF fitting washers are in their proper order?
And..........symptoms of low ATF? The torque converter won't have enough ATF to effectively transfer power from the engine to the tranny. This manifests itself in a very-easy-to-see symptom. The engine will sound like it's going sixty but the vehicle will only move like it's going thirty. And acceleration will be just about nil.
Bit the bullet and pulled the ATF lines this morning. Found that the return line had gotten against the exhaust at one time or another. Didn't burn all the way through and even a pressure test did'n't show any leaks but I changed it anyway, ran the motor for about 10 minutes, shut it down and no leak. Hope that was the cure but I won't bet the farm on it yet. Thanks for the advise. Sure makes problems a lot easier when you have someone to bounce ideas off of. There should be more sites like this one. :)
Great Work...
its good practice to replace the ATF lines then You will know they
won't leak for a very long time...
same with the vacuum hoses...
Yes, its easy to get the washers in the wrong place...
I am using the original washers too...
I believe they are aluminium...
and have to be very tight....
LEE