Just got my bug into rented garage and first aim is to remove engine for repair. I cannot get the car up on ramps due to limited space. What is the best method for raising the car? I have read get it as high as possible. I have trolley jack and axle stands but have read that it is best to use four leg ones. Also is there a step by step guide to what to take off, where the engine bolts are etc. There is a thread on the technical section but it seems limited info. for an absolute beginner! Help!
Quite like the idea of removing the valance. On the other hand it is a lot easier to take things apart than get them back to the original.
Hi
Yes, removing the rear valance makes taking the engine out a one man job... [two would be easier..lol]
If You can weld or have someone who can weld cheaply for You..
then I have some great pics on this better way to remove the rear valance [than the way I went]
I will put them on here today [hopefully]
You need to drain the ATF from the lower hose going to the ATF Tank.. [or from the bottom of the tank]
be careful with the hose/pipe connections , as they can be damaged...
use two spanners if You can on pipe fitting/hose fitting...
When You take the 4 nuts holding the engine in off...
the torque converter WILL come with the engine unless You have undone the 4 bolts inside the bell housing
containing the torque converter [thru the square cutouts]
then You will still need to hold the torque converter to the gearbox..
when You take the torque converter Off the shafts ... ATF WILL drop downwards...
put something under it to catch the ATF.... can be about a pint or so... depending on how long You let the ATF Drain..
I'll post more pics for you.. and see what I can find...
cheers
Lee in Australia
label all electrical wires... [something I never do...lo]
Thanks Lee, pics would be good. Obviously I want to do the least damage possible removing the valance so that it can be welded back on as cheaply as possible.
Intention is to take our time getting things done. The idea is to take the engine out, strip it down and re-assemble with new bits etc.
The Beetle has been standing on the front lawn for a year or so after Dave, my son, ran it without any engine oil! Engine still runs but with a 'slight' clattering noise. Just rented a small garage and the Beetle is up on ramps prior to us removing the engine. Then much scratching of heads. Stuck already, before we've started!
Hi
here are some pics
there are two nuts behind the fan housing to UNDO...
and two bolts either side of the bell housing/gearbox down low...
shown in first photo... bottom two bolts.. nuts taken off from below the engine...
TOP two holes have Bolts in them with nuts behind the fan housing..
they actually hold the engine in...
3rd photo shows the torque converter sitting on the shafts after the engine has been withdrawn..
You will need to push the torque converter back when pulling the engine out...
----------------------- BUT FIRST --------------------
Undo all the electrical bits and label them...
then the ATF hose going into the bottom of the ATF tank off to drain the ATF.. [loosen cap off the ATF tank and let ATF Drain]
air filter to be taken off.. if the black metal one it should have oil in it... don't tip it over... lol
the Hose going to the metal plate on the RHS of the fan belt need to be undone..
.. two spanners needed..
hold the pipe end so it doesn't twist the pipe.. while You undo the hose end..
the other ATF hose going to the top of the ATF Tank...[return line] needs to be taken off, and the ATF tank Cap undone
so the ATF can drain easily...
the fuel hose needs to be disconnected from the fuel pump.. it needs to be taken off the pipe over the RHS rear axle
plug it so it doesn't leak..
vacuum hoses from the control valve to be disconnected..
including the small vacuum hose going to the carby..
wires off the control valve off...
that is all I can remember... {i've done it so many times... I can do it when I'm asleep..lol "nightmares"]
any questions just ask..
You will need the two ATF/engine oil pump seals [ONLY evw] torque converter seal [evw]
engine mounts x 2 , renew all hoses -, front engine crankshaft oil seal, 8 x push rod tubes and 8 x silicone seals
oil cooler seals x 2. axle seals x 2, axle boots x 4 .. Lithium based MOLY grease - 5 liters of DEXRON ATF -
plus whatever is needed... I would also replace the fan belt with an alternator belt 11.3 x 912 part no: 111 903 137E
they don't stretch like a generator belt.. but aren't expensive from VW parts shops..
cheers
Lee
(http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/45788/1149037124050767931S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1149037124050767931nikRdW)
(http://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/48060/2613451960050767931S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2613451960050767931Rgmwsv)
(http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/48425/2926675340050767931S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2926675340050767931qLudFG)
(http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/47941/2034203510050767931S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2034203510050767931BQhiaB)
I haven't looked at the rear valance since reading about removing it. Presumably it is welded? I am interested in how you get that off. And whether it will go back on!
Raysor,
You bet it is welded! About 50 spot welds >:( . I used a 6mm drill . I bought a set of 8 for next to nothing so I could burn them out then throw them away. I think I went through twice. I found I had to hacksaw at the top where it joins (about 1/2 way up the engine bay/engine lid area) and for some reason along the where the valance joins the body around the engine seal channel. Slowly, slowly - catchee monkey ;) . After that it was a cold chisel to part the welds/brazed areas. It came off intact. But you need to break a welder out to fab up some stuff. I know Lee has a fibreglass valance but if you want to retain the OG metal you have to get creative with how to fix it.
It has been covered on other sites (samba, aussieveedubbers & prolly volkszone) in piccie detail.
>'68 models have less spot welds!! :o
As a thought, why not take off the engine lid and remove as much of the shroud/oil cooler etc as possible. That way you don't have so far to raise the car. Drop off a wheel so you can wriggle it out sideways as well.
That's including all of Lee's stuff!
Enjoy
Volkenstein
Hi Sean
I drilled Mine out... never went thru the metal.. [lucky]
My Son just cut His rear valance off with an angle grinder
and welded on brackets underneath...
He can weld and He's also a spray painter.. lol [He also has a spare fiberglass rear valance for Me]
I will post some pics of the OTHER WAY to cut off the valance..
its the way I would go... if there was a next time...lol
and I have done that the last few times... taken off the fan shroud in the engine bay..
You do need to take the engine lid hinge supports off.. just mark where they go..
first time is the hardest...lol..
after taking the fan shroud off.. then You can take the oil cooler off...
alternator or generator off... etc... not much sticking up in the air then...
cheers
LEE
size]
Will Brian need an anaesthetic?
I pulled the motor by myself just as was mentioned above. I removed the rear deck lid, pulled the fan housing, generator, etc...whatever I could to take down the height of the engine. Jacked the car up by the lower shock support as high as possible. Put a jackstand underneath the torsion bar and did the same on the other side. Bolted a piece of 2x12 to my floor jack and ran it up underneath the engine. removed all 4 engine mount bolts, 4 torque converter bolts, hoses, electrical, etc. Pulled it backwards off the tranny, lowered it on the jack, and then slid it off onto the floor of my garage. Rolled the jack out and slid the motor out from underneath the car. From there you can strip it down and have a buddy help you put it on the engine stand. Had mine out along with the transmission in one evening.
Just read and ask questions...the guys on here have been very helpful.
A Bently manual is a must...and the machine shop can have good advice.
There is an account on YouTube "64vdub" or something like that. He documents an entire VW engine rebuild through 15-16 sessions. Take the time to watch those...you'll find some helpful tricks that aren't in the shop manual.
Good luck!!
Travis
HI
You can buy Bentley manuals from amazon.com
You can buy New or good used books on their website..
A few years ago I bought a lot of used books
and had them bought over to Australia by a relative coming to Australia
I have 10 or more books on VW beetle - restoration - workshop and owner manuals - etc.
Many books seem to leave out small details [that a mechanic would know]
so the more books the better...
cheers
Lee in Australia
Quote from: travbo24 on 14 June 2011, 22:27
I pulled the motor by myself just as was mentioned above. I removed the rear deck lid, pulled the fan housing, generator, etc...whatever I could to take down the height of the engine. Jacked the car up by the lower shock support as high as possible. Put a jackstand underneath the torsion bar and did the same on the other side. Bolted a piece of 2x12 to my floor jack and ran it up underneath the engine. removed all 4 engine mount bolts, 4 torque converter bolts, hoses, electrical, etc. Pulled it backwards off the tranny, lowered it on the jack, and then slid it off onto the floor of my garage. Rolled the jack out and slid the motor out from underneath the car. From there you can strip it down and have a buddy help you put it on the engine stand. Had mine out along with the transmission in one evening.
Just read and ask questions...the guys on here have been very helpful.
A Bently manual is a must...and the machine shop can have good advice.
There is an account on YouTube "64vdub" or something like that. He documents an entire VW engine rebuild through 15-16 sessions. Take the time to watch those...you'll find some helpful tricks that aren't in the shop manual.
Good luck!!
Travis
I suppose it is best to try and get it out without resorting to cutting off the rear valance. I have a trolley jack (not high lift) and two standard axle stands. Thinking about investing in a better jack and stands.
How high does the back have to go and do you have to level out the car by jacking the front as well?
No You leave the front on the ground...
and just lift the rear of the car to clear the body as You take the engine out...
as You pull the engine off the gearbox... about 6 inches approx??
You need to undo the torque converter from the flexplate thru the square holes [turning the engine to access the bolts]
then as You pull the engine backwards [engine weight on the jack] push the torque converter towards the gearbox
so it will stay on the gearbox shafts .. and You can just pull it off easily later...
when the engine is clear of the gearbox....
lower the jack down... until You clear the body.. - If the body is too low... jack the rear of the car up higher..-
then pull the engine rearwards... until its clear of the body...
much easier with no valance... but if You aren't going to keep taking the engine out [as I do...lol]
then there is no bodywork to do...
cheers
Lee
PS: My Son has this engine trolley..
An old girl was walking up the road a couple of weeks ago and seeing the Beetle on the front lawn enquired "does it work?'.
'No', I said.
'Then it's time to let it go, I think'
And my wife: 'You are not going to spend more money on that heap of junk, are you?"
How could she? http://t1beetle.blogspot.com/2010/06/dont-let-grass-grow-under-your-wheels.html
I was reading a book last night on Beetle restoration (can't remember what it was called). The car in the pictures had the rear wheels up on standard ramps as the engine was being pulled out (on a jack). I presume that is high enough?
raysor,
Shroud off or shroud on? Car ramps aren't high, but everything should clear (engine on support on jack) if the shroud is off (and the oil cooler!!).
HTH
Volkenstein
Quote from: volkenstein on 17 June 2011, 08:08
raysor,
Shroud off or shroud on? Car ramps aren't high, but everything should clear (engine on support on jack) if the shroud is off (and the oil cooler!!).
HTH
Volkenstein
Yes, they took everything off first. There is one chap in the picture pulling the engine on his own. The caption says you might need someone to lift the engine and remove the jack. Also to put some shiny magazines under the engine to help slide it out.
The book is VW Beetle and Transporter. Guide to Purchase and DIY Restoration.
(ISBN: 0854294740 )
Lindsay Porter.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NQhAIj6JThA/TfzPYbImXLI/AAAAAAAAAMg/B0s7HbY5YSc/s1600/DSC_0404.JPG)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SgCWY-8DETg/TfzPYhv4VoI/AAAAAAAAAMo/tHdJ6ghTDd8/s1600/DSC_0405.JPG)
Quote from: raysor on 17 June 2011, 10:13
Yes, they took everything off first. There is one chap in the picture pulling the engine on his own. The caption says you might need someone to lift the engine and remove the jack. Also to put some shiny magazines under the engine to help slide it out.
The book is VW Beetle and Transporter. Guide to Purchase and DIY Restoration.
(ISBN: 0854294740 )
Lindsay Porter.
That is an excellent book... I have one..
One of the best books around....
LEE
You don't need to cut the valance. Its all a matter of lifting the car high enough to clear the engine. Set the car up a moderate level with jack stands (shake the car on the stands to make sure it won't fall on you.) Lower the engine. I lower mind onto skate boards so I can roll it out. Then lift the car to its highest level on the jack stands. Taking the air filter off helps. But if your jack stands are tall enough, you should have clearand to roll the engine out.
Quote from: daddygo on 29 October 2011, 03:31
You don't need to cut the valance. Its all a matter of lifting the car high enough to clear the engine. Set the car up a moderate level with jack stands (shake the car on the stands to make sure it won't fall on you.) Lower the engine. I lower mind onto skate boards so I can roll it out. Then lift the car to its highest level on the jack stands. Taking the air filter off helps. But if your jack stands are tall enough, you should have clearand to roll the engine out.
Do you think it is high enough? (Reply #18). At the moment the fan shroud, carburettor, engine lid etc. is off
http://www.flickr.com/photos/62408207@N03/5921764979/in/photostream/
Doesn't look high enough to me. The ramps will not give you the clearance that a good set of jack stands will.
But your flicker picture with the doghouse and generator removed will give you several inches more clearance.
Got the engine out yesterday, well someone from Volkszone took it out. About 1hr 40 mins. The worst thing was getting the bolts undone holding the torque converter. They are splined heads. Need to buy engine stand now.
That's just the beginning.
I took mine out myself. I have the car on four jack stands as I'm doing a ton to it.
When I dropped the engine I still had to jack up the car more and then I slid it out the right wheel well as that was where the most room was.
Now I'm spending time de-mucking everything. Rebuilt the autostick wire harness as well.
Listen to this! I found the nuts that secure the servo laying in gunk on the housing!
There will be a point very soon though when I will have to stop fixing and get back to driving.
Hi
Great news Guys.
I have had the fan housing off a few times so, its easy now.
You need to take off the engine lid brackets so You can lift up the fan housing.
Once the fan housing. alternator/generator etc are off You won't need to lift
the body so high to get the engine out.
originally the engine was a very basic affair and was easy to get out but in later years
as everything got bigger and the engine bay got more crowded, its a bit harder to take out.
I'm lucky I have a removable rear valance... so the engine just comes straight back.
I haven't seen the splined bolts for the torque conveter as all mine have had the hexagon
head. There isn't much room in there, but if You are careful and have the correct tools
its not too bad.. making sure You don't drop a torque converter bolt into the housing is MORE
scarey... lol All the manuals say to be careful..
cheers
LEE
Everything was removed from engine and lid removed as you can see from the Flickr picture. The splined nuts were a five minute problem (just to figure out what they were) but a socket fitted just nicely and they came out pretty easily. I think the distributor cap just caught on the valance but we lifted the rear of the car about an inch by hand (just on the suspension) and it squeezed under.
Not much room between back of car and garage doors.
Probably take off the exhaust and all the tinware etc. then take the engine to one of our houses. Need to buy an engine stand and then have a bash at reconning it. As you know my son drove it without oil and sounds like the big ends have gone but don't know how much more damage.