Hello all,
My daily driver is in serious trouble. :o It seems like I am suffering vacuum leakage, in that I can start the car up, engine is strong, but I can't engage the gears. The stick either won't move into them, or if it does, it grinds horribly. Sometimes jiggling the cable that runs from the shifter knob back to the transmission seems to fix the problem. Sometimes I hear a sound like rustling rubber coming from the transmission. Sometimes none of that and it runs beautifully, shifting and all [though much less after 2 days of this]. I have a 71 with original transmission and AS parts. What should I order to get this resolved ASAP! I am leaving town for a week and it will sit and wait for me, but I would love to order the parts now so I can get right on this when I get home. I have entertained vacuum leaks and electrical breakdowns as culprits. Any other thoughts?
Thanks for reading!
I think that wire is the ground that runs from the stick to the transmission. If jiggling it helps, maybe you have a loose ground. Follow it and look for kinks/damage. According to my manual there is a plug-in connection under the back seat. Check to make sure it is making good contact/not corroded. While you are at it, check the braided ground underneath where the transmission enters the body.
Are there any diagrams out there of where the transmission enters the body? I have looked and looked but can only find them for manuals. I don't want to go in blindly ripping tings out only to have a transmission drop onto the floor and no idea how to get it back in. :)
There might be some diagrams out there, but the braided ground I'm talking about is visible. Put her up on jack stands if you need the room and slide underneath. The engine and transmission are cradled between two arms that split off from the main tunnel. The two arms meet at the tunnel and that's where the transmission nose cone enters the tunnel.
If your owner's manual has disappeared, download a copy here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/71bug.php (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/71bug.php)
Some more info here too http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/72bug_guide.php (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/72bug_guide.php)
Quote from: 71superAS on 05 March 2012, 22:04
Hello all,
My daily driver is in serious trouble. :o It seems like I am suffering vacuum leakage, in that I can start the car up, engine is strong, but I can't engage the gears. The stick either won't move into them, or if it does, it grinds horribly. Sometimes jiggling the cable that runs from the shifter knob back to the transmission seems to fix the problem. Sometimes I hear a sound like rustling rubber coming from the transmission. Sometimes none of that and it runs beautifully, shifting and all [though much less after 2 days of this]. I have a 71 with original transmission and AS parts. What should I order to get this resolved ASAP! I am leaving town for a week and it will sit and wait for me, but I would love to order the parts now so I can get right on this when I get home. I have entertained vacuum leaks and electrical breakdowns as culprits. Any other thoughts?
Thanks for reading!
Rustling Rubber
that is a hard one...
If Your engine/transaxle mountings are badly worn and most are, as new ones don't last 10 years.
the rubber comes off the metal part or on the original ones the rubber comes apart [not off the metal]
there is also a gearbox mount right at the front of the gearbox...
I've never seen a worn one of these..
but rust isn't that bad in Australia.. dry roads or just rain.. so no salt etc...
so, no rusted ones either.. If any of these are faulty and moving about then Your wires going to Your gearbox
may be loose also... I had this problem [just loose connectors] for a long time...
You can check out the connectors [they have a rubber boot covering them]
its actually a plug with 3 wires... pull the plug off and push it back on and see if that made any difference..
its the neutral safety switch on the nose of the gearbox on the LHS..
some people stick a piece of wire in the two terminals [like a metal paper clip]
so they can start the car any time.. in or out of gear...
CHEERS
Lee in Australia
(http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/48321/2815814920050767931S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2815814920050767931rvtzYB)
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Hi
If You were losing vacuum, You wouldn't be able to select gears anytime..
vacuum is used to operate the clutch, so if it doesn't work, You can't select gears.
and vacuum leaks aren't intermittant.
My guess is its the electrical problem... easier to fix too...lol
Let Us know how you go.
any questions... just ask..
best of luck
Lee in Australia
The 'rustling' sound is weird. Sounds likes something is caught in the transaxle while it is spinning and rubbing. The transmission and engine mounts are new, but who knows. I'll have a better idea when I go in for a look later.
Thanks for the ideas! I will report back when I have better information.
...also I didn't mean that the vacuum leaks were intermittent. I read somewhere that you can 'rock' the knob [and clutch] into gear if you have a leak. That method has worked a bit.
Hi
all read and understood. and OK on the new engine mounts.
well, if the plug was loose or the wires in the plug are loose. then the method You are refering to, would work..
as I had completely rewired My car, wires were in different places...
I had one wire pulled tight over the accelerator cable so, pushing the pedal down pulled the cable and moved the plug...lol
wasn:t that easy to find though... so sometimes I could select a gear and sometimes not... lol
My other thoughts, are the clutch servo... If the vacuum tank hose had a very small leak, then You could get enough vacuum
at times straight from the inlet manifold... so, wiggling the knob could also work that way??
it must be driving You crazy when You go to go...
OK with the ignition ON , You should be able to select a gear at least 6 times using the vacuum in the vacuum tank..
of course this won't work if the problem is elsewhere.. like electrical intermittant...etc..
cheers
LEE in Australia[color]
Progress!!!
The PO must have run into this issue, because I found a horrid patchwork of different wire parts making up the cable running back from the knob.
It was also cracked at the shifter knob..... ::)
I replaced a fair length of it with some fairly high gauge, high quality wire. Now I can move the knob with the car on, no issues there. But the clutch does not engage. I shut the engine off while it was in reverse, and the car popped into gear for a split-second as it was shutting down. I must be grounding out somehow? I am going to re-check what I did and make sure I am clean as can be.
Hmm, maybe I damaged the transmission pretty badly. :(
I can shift the knob into any gear position freely while the car is off. When I fire it up, I can shift it into reverse and low [positions] freely, but I cannot get the knob into first very often. It feels like the gear isn't there to shift into and I am just banging the knob against a blank face of the plate, not a gear position.
I shut the car down while it is in Reverse, and it pops into gear as it is shutting down. If I do the same thing while it is in low, in makes this rubber squealing sound like it is rubbing badly on something, but doesn't feel like it is engaging. It does the same if I shut it down in 1st. None of these gears engage while the car is starting. Is there a schematic of how I need to wire up the shifter knob?
If any of this seems too confusing or ignorant on my part, please let me know. I will try to clarify as best I can.
Thank you!
Patrick
Patrick,
Have you tried adjusting the shifter stop plate, checking it's orientation and even going as far as to check the shift rod bushing in the tunnel. Lee may have some sticky pics....
Remember it'snly about a .016" gap for the contacts so the "mish-mash" of bits may be even mushier..Try the tech section for "your gear stick exposed"..if not there find it in the OLD furm section on the site front page.
HTH
Volkenstein
Quote from: 71superAS on 07 March 2012, 00:19
Progress!!!
The PO must have run into this issue, because I found a horrid patchwork of different wire parts making up the cable running back from the knob.
It was also cracked at the shifter knob..... ::
I replaced a fair length of it with some fairly high gauge, high quality wire. Now I can move the knob with the car on, no issues there. But the clutch does not engage. I shut the engine off while it was in reverse, and the car popped into gear for a split-second as it was shutting down. I must be grounding out somehow? I am going to re-check what I did and make sure I am clean as can be.
Hi
Best to replace the whole wire from the shifter to the control valve....
its a really strange problem... never heard of anything like that before..
the clutch servo has power to it ALL the time the engine is on - ignition is ON =
have You checked that ?? [it sounds like it has power]
using a small alligator clip on each end of piece of wire -- one end to the clutch servo CONTROL VALVE terminal the other end going to the points wire at the end of the gearshifter - You could run this wire thru the open door to make it easy... [for testing purposes]
the weird rubbery noise You are hearing is something I can never remember hearing.. a strange one..???
You don't think its the clutch servo diaphram collapsing?? [normal when the vacuum hits the servo thru the control valve]
so, when You shift the gearshifter knob [normally] the shifter grounds out the points.. [wire going to the Control Valve]
and the clutch is operated [depressed] so You can select a gear and when You let go of the gearshifter knob the clutch is released..
but if Your wire between the gearshifter and Control Valve were grounding out as You thought...
so the clutch is depressed [rubbery noise of diaphram] but WON'T release until you turn the key OFF...
I think it sounds like this is happening...???
As Sean suggested , there could be other problems - like the reverse lock out plate is in the wrong position or badly worn??
or the plastic bush in the tunnel has worn out allowing the gearshifter to drop lower into the tunnel...
causing all sorts of problems..
cheers
LEE in Australia
(http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/47041/236862293005076%5BURL=http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2493625820050767931UyfWpa%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/47884/2493625820050767931S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2368622930050767931KiVxJS)7931S425x425Q85.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Any help out there for seeing a schematic for disassembling the shift knob and base plate? The shifter I have seems to be one piece, forged.
do you have the right shifter? I can feel mine give when I start to move it. do you have a pic of it?
It sounds like yours may be tightened all the way making it rigid, or.....possibly the wrong one
Jeff
I have the knob unthreaded from the car. I will take a picture of it and attach.
I see some broken wire inside the knob, that's what I don't know how to open up.
Quote from: 71superAS on 19 March 2012, 23:47
I have the knob unthreaded from the car. I will take a picture of it and attach.
I see some broken wire inside the knob, that's what I don't know how to open up.
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Hi
You place a spanner on the top long piece [has flats on either side]
while You place a spanner on the top nut and loosen the top piece..
then unscrew the top piece..
there is a hole for the wire to go thru..
You can desolder the point part with the wire soldered to it..
and resolder a new wire to it...
use a wire at least the size of the original or slightly larger...
there is a ball bearing and spring in the long piece
the gearlever is only made to move forwards and backwards..
so the top piece has to have the flats on the sides
I have seen the autostick shifters in cars that are manual.
I believe these were autosticks and made into manuals, but instead of replacing
the gearlever they just tighten it up so it doesn't move..
and that makes the used gearshifters rare...
cheers
LEE
]
Ahhh, this is exactly what I was looking for!! Which manual was this in?
Well, I have the wire and contact replaced. Now it appears I can get it into gear. One curious thing is that I can't get it out of gear without shutting the car off. The shifter won't move into neutral with any reasonable amount of force. I am going to disassemble the whole shifter column to see if the bushing is shot.
Also, when I put it into reverse, it squeals. I will record it and upload it for people to hear if this makes no sense. Squeals until I shut the car off in reverse. If anyone is around and can give me guidance, I can work on this for the next 12 hours today, so any thoughts posted ASAP would be swell.
Thanks as always for all your help everyone! :D
Patrick
Ok, just took it down off the stands and tested. I can get it into reverse instantly, no issues [just that horrible squealing]. Drives great! ...can't disengage the gear. I shut it down, disengage the gear while turned off. Start it up! Fires up great :D Put it into first! It's back to the car I know and love. ...can't disengage it again. :( Shut it off. Disengage while off.
Has anyone ever heard of this?
Alrighty, I got the gear shifting solved. Runs like a top again. But that squealing happens if I put the car into reverse for a short bit of time. It also happened after I had parked the car and taken it out of gear. In neutral, when I clicked the key off, it squealed for the last couple cycles of the engine it seemed. Does not make this sound while in gear and driving.
Any ideas? :o
'71,
Sure it isn't coming from the CV? Mine admittedly never did this, but a "duck fart" sound is what some others have reported. Left over vacuum etc..Engine going,no probs.
Volkenstein
Quote from: 71superAS on 31 March 2012, 21:54
Alrighty, I got the gear shifting solved. Runs like a top again. But that squealing happens if I put the car into reverse for a short bit of time. It also happened after I had parked the car and taken it out of gear. In neutral, when I clicked the key off, it squealed for the last couple cycles of the engine it seemed. Does not make this sound while in gear and driving.
Any ideas? :o
Hi Guys
well, My car used to make this sound when I let go of the gear lever, as I had too much vacuum from the carburetor
that caused the control valve to work VERY fast... clutch servo in or out Very fast-- hence the duck noise..
but everything still worked... vacuum tank still held vacuum - could change gears etc...
so, I'm also guessing its the control valve not working correctly...
BUT why its releasing the vacuum when You turn the key off is very odd??
the control valve has power from the ignition, so there is power there all the time [the ignition is ON]
but it should only work, when the gearshifter is moved forwards or backwards..
so there shouldn't be any -- negative power to the control valve -- unless You have pressure on the gear shifter lever knob
so, if You connected a test lamp to the two terminals of the control valve, the lamp would only light when You moved the gear stick.
But-- maybe You will find Yours will light when the ignition is turned OFF..???
You should also be able to hear the clutch servo working when You change gears with the ignition ON..
Normally You can do this about 6-8 times.. [You are using vacuum from the vacuum tank..]
this will tell you if You have vacuum in the vacuum tank..
Mine never leaks out.. I can always do that..
the control valve or clutch servo should never make a noise when You turn the ignition OFF or ON.
Lee in Australia
Oh, it is definitely not the duck noise. I get that every once in a while, the farty/quacky sound.
This is squealing cycling with the engine or transaxle. It stopped as soon as the engine stopped.
Quote from: 71superAS on 01 April 2012, 14:33
Oh, it is definitely not the duck noise. I get that every once in a while, the farty/quacky sound.
This is squealing cycling with the engine or transaxle. It stopped as soon as the engine stopped.
Apologies
didn't read Your post properly... Re Squealing
I haven't had that one..?
so, it sounds like its either coming from the gearbox or engine
and in unisyn with the engine revolutions?
Your ATF , is it new? and is it red?
just trying to think what would make a squealing sound..
there is a small needle roller bearing in the clutch part..
I remember because I did renew it and after considerable trouble getting it out...
found there was nothing wrong with it.. lol
but it has a dab of grease in it.. wondering whether it was clutch pilot bearing?
sounds like somthing is dry and it shouldn't be.. [should be lubricated]>>
also, does it make the noise when driving or ONLY in Neutral and reverse??
Have You had the ATF pump off? was it scored??
cheers
LEE
Makes noise when gassing the car in reverse, and it made it in neutral only when I shut the car down, during the time between when I clicked the key to 'off' and the engine stopped entirely.
I will record the sound and put it up on youtube for anyone to hear for themselves.
The ATF is red, no issues there. I did not have the ATF pump off
Hi
Well, that is an odd one...
ONLY when You shut the engine down...
or accelerate in REVERSE...
I'm just thinking, I don't turn My engine off in neutral {I don't think]
I know I always have to select neutral to start it at home... lol
although I do turn it off in neutral at times [thinking]
only thing I can think of that squeals is a fan belt..??
so, something is happening at both those times??
LEE
hi,
ive just post re a reverse prob i havemy 71 starts and can get into reverse and all gears there after cant get back into reverese, any way gone through hole string of checks your sounds electrical, check the contact in teh gear stick the wire that leads into the side of the gear stick is soldered on to a contact this can break easy after a time if you first check the contact at the top part of the stick undo the top locking nut and the unscrew the contact shroud there is a spring inside, clean both ends of the spring and the contact with emmery cloth, then re tightend completely tight and then slack of about half turn back this should give you the required clearance so that when you plac your hand on teh stick shift the micro switch is hit and if you turn your car on with out starting the engine you should hear the control valve solenoid opening and shuting with clicking at the back, if not unscrew a little further, one thing teh slot that is the top of teh gear stick that the rod sits in should sit with the length runing front to back
you could also clean the contact conectors on the control valve. im new to this but see how you get on with that.
cheers mart
Hi Mart
I may have answered Your question on the other post
re- NO SHIFTING POSSIBLE FOR THE FIRST FEW MINUTES.....
I do believe Your clutch servo needs adjusting..
Once You have reverse sorted out all the other gears are OK..
I think Your clutch is still touching, wearing, when You are trying to get into or out of reverse..
also commented on the gearshifter gap etc..
I hope that helps
cheers
Lee Noonan in Australia..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFEtiVZunIs
There's a recording I just took, sorry about the crummy phone quality. Let me know what you think?
hi lee
thanks yes tried adjusting the servo will have a go again do you know how many threads should show on the vacume adjuster also does it matter if the wire to the vacume solenoid are in a certain way one runs round the shroud and engine im thinking that then goes back to the gear box safety sitch on the gearbox so you cant start in gear. im getting som new hose there is a companyin the states selling them cheaper on ebay braided all sizes vw fuel breather hose line 12mm bug bus ghia vent type3 £10 FOR A METER ITEM NUMBER YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK OUT ITEMNUMBER IS 290510174058
REGARDS MART CAMBRIDGE UK
Quote from: 71superAS on 02 April 2012, 17:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFEtiVZunIs
There's a recording I just took, sorry about the crummy phone quality. Let me know what you think?
Bump. Anyone got any thoughts? It is making it in gear sometimes now too. Should I expect the transmission to explode any time now?
it sounds like a metal to metal contact...
a dry bearing?? not clutch?? as its making the noise in reverse...
unless the clutch bearing is still touching..?? no freeplay..
if that was the case why isn;t it doing it in the forward gears??
torque converter only spins one way...
only reverse gear changes in the gearbox...
so. a worn bearing???
is your gearbox full of oil?
sorry, reading lots of posts..
Lee
HI YES CHANGED THE OIL ATF OIL, WAITING ON THE NEW HOSES GOING TO PUT THOSE IN JUST LATLEY ITS BEEN RUNNING A LITTLE BETTER MIGHT GRIND THE FIRST TIME THEN IF I GO SLOWLY INTO REVERSE IT HAS BEEN LETTING ME IN, IM GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER GO AT THE SERVO TWEEK THE ADJUSTER ALSO CAM ACROSS A THREAT THAT BASICLAY SAID IF YOU WERE GETING TIRED OF FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTER TO TAKE THE ARM OFF IF YOU CAN GET TO IT PUT THE CAR IN REREVERSE AND THE RE ATTACH THE ARM AND ADJUSTER TO THE SERVO THAT WE IT IS SET CORRECT, NOT SURE ABOUT THAT YET LOOKS A BIT OF SQUEZZE TO GET IN AND UNDO THE ARM RETAINING BOLT, I PICKED UP A SPARE GEARBOX FROM HASTINGS WITH ASERVO ATTACHED JUST IN CASE I NEED DONER PARTS , HELPS SEEING THE HOLE THING OUT OF THE BOX SO TO SPEAK. DID YOU HAVE ANYTHOUGHTS ON THE NUMBER OF THREADS I SHOULD SEE ON THE VACUME CONTROL SCREW., I AGREE WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT THE GEARS IF ITS GETTING INTO 1ST 2ND AND LOW OK WHY IS THE REVERSE A PROBLEM, I PICKED UP A RELEASE BEARING OFF EBAY, AND WAS CONSIDERING FITTING THAT IF THE NEW HOSES AND THE TWEEKING DONT WORK, CHANGE THE CLUTCH SAME TIME
THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT
MART
HI Mart
unless Your clutch arm is touching the bell housing of the gearbox..
there shouldn't be any need to touch the clutch arm.. which as You noted is nearly impossible to undo the bolt and adjust it-
just think, I had replaced most bolts on My car when I taken them out so I replaced the bolt in the clutch arm with a bolt 2 inches long
instead of one about 3/4 of an inch long.. lol what I didn't do was, mark where the clutch arm was before I took the bolt out.. lol
Lucky to get a clutch throw out bearing... these were NLA even a few years ago.. along with most parts.
I'm sorry I can't help with the squealing noise.. I can't think of anything that would make that noise only in reverse or turning the engine off apart from the throw out bearing, or part of the clutch , which is inside its own compartment..
You need to take the sump plate off to undo nuts to pull kit apart so You can get at the clutch.
its a pretty simple normal clutch plate/pressure plate with the throw out bearing and forks etc..
Control valve.. screw it down so only 2 threads are showing... I will try to take a photo of mine close up..
screw it anti clockwise a 1/4 turn at a time., it is very sensitive.. [book says 1/4 to 1/2 a turn]
There is a test for the timing of the clutch servo and gearshifter...
I cannot find it at the moment,,, read it a few days ago..
its about what speed You should be able to shift from Drive 2 to drive 1 without crunching..
as I never do this unless I'm driving slow around town.. I cannot remember the speed..
LEE
cheers for that lee
have to say since i last her legs up in the air tweeked the servo adjuster again so that it is almost fully screwed the locking nut up she has been playing ball slipping in and out of gears i will still change the hoses and check the control valve setting as there is a tendancey for her to jolt once gear has engaged.
appreciate your time on this, now ive just got to get my t2 from fluffing running a bit rich and we are off to wales snow permitting thus easter.
;D all that bank holiday traffic cant wait irate lorry drivers pushing at my tale fortunatley i have the usual camper stickers so they get a laugh while there waiting to past me lol
cheers again
mart