The other day I was leaving for work, when I started my AS Ghia it was making a terrible rattle that I thought sounded like the fan shroud was rubbing on the fan I was running late and only going about a mile so I figured I could figure it out after work and when I put it in gear and started off it stopped. Then when I went to leave work It was rattling again and again shifted into reverse backed out of the parking spot and it stopped then put it into 1 and started to head home, got about 1/2 way across the parking lot and I was revving....motor was running but no power to the wheels shifted between gears with no grinding just would not go. shut it off, pushed it into a parking stall and called the wife for a ride home. Tried to start it back up while I was waiting and I could hear the starter turning over but it wasnt cranking the motor at all. I have 3 ideas of what it may be, but before I go tearing things apart I was wondering what you all thought and if you had any suggestions on things to check first. Thanks in advance!
Rocketmonkey81,
I had something similar happen to me. If your lucky, the bolts just vibrated out of the flywheel( the bolts that connect the flywheel to the torque convertor ). If not lucky, when the last bolt let loose, it could have wollered out (oblonged) the bolt hole in the flywheel. The ring gear is attched to the torque convertor, so this would support the assumption your bolts have vibrated out. You'll deffinantly need new bolts to attach the flywheel back to the torque convertor and maybe a new flywheel. the engine should be pulled to check the flywheel and get the old bolts out of the bell housing.
Sorry for the bad news,
Marcus
Yeah, kinda worried that it is the flex plate...first thing I am going to check is the clutch free-play. haven't had a chance as it was raining buckets my one day off in the last 13. I am off this Saturday (as of right now) so I will try to do it then. If that is a no fix the motor is coming out that same day. I don't have a cherry picker so looks like I am buying a case of beer for a few of my big friends to move it to the work bench.
Well poop...pulled the engine today and it turns out the center hub sheared off of the flex plate. :-\ No biggie the torque converter is fine and I can replace the flex plate with out too much trouble...oh wait somehow the dowel peg holes on the crank shaft are wallered out...probably already was...likely what caused the problem in the first place. This just got a whole lot more difficult.
Yes, sounds like it just got a much bigger job
I don't know if that would be repairable without dismantling the engine??
like welding up the worn holes..?? or repairing them somehow..??
once the flexplate rivets shear or wear badly, its very difficult to fix without replacing the flexplate.. I had one and re riveted and even had it welded in 4 spots but came loose again...??
I had put the torque converter in wrong... splines weren't aligned properly...
cheers
Lee in Australia
Well I got a new (refurbished) Flex plate off a fella over on TheSamba for about $50 an 8 Dowel jig and 4 new Pins from MOFOCO a new crankshaft oil seal, because if the engine is out why not. While I was waiting for parts (I live in Hawaii and there is almost nothing local) I pulled the tins sanded and gave them a fresh lick of high temp black paint, took a brush and some degreaser to the intake and case, replaced the spark plugs and leads and cleaned and rebuilt the carb with a kit I had laying around, oh, also set valve gap and replaced pretty much every gasket besides the head. Long story short, I know with out the threaded hols getting the flex plate off in the future will be a pain but I didn't have to replace the crank. Also had her out on the freeway today and nothing fell off so I count that as a win.
Well, that is great news.
Hopefully You won't have to pull the flexplate off again..
and it could possibly be pulled off with a large puller or something made up..
Hoping it keeps going for You..
cheers
Lee in Australia
Hello Autostick enthusiasts and experts,
Back in the 90's I had a 1973 Super Beetle Autostick. I really liked it but it shattered 3 flexplates which I had replaced by VW mechanics. Independent mechanics with aircooled experience. One day I was driving to my mechanic and I heard the warning sound of another impending flexplate disaster. It was a ticking sound. So I traded my Super for a 411 wagon. The mechanic stated that the torque converter was not turning true. I have a few questions as now that I live in AZ, I hope to one day buy a rust free 73 or 74 AS Super Beetle. My questions are: What would cause a problem like that ? Are flexplate disasters rare or not so rare ? And finally, this question comes up every so often: Are all necessary AS parts still available ? Thank you all for your help.
Hmm,
First I've ever heard of repeated Flex Plate issues. Most of the ones I've heard about relate to flexplate bolts coming loose or the TC hold tabs shearing. Reading your missive and subsequent damage suffered I would suspect a lot of things. Insufficient torque of your gland nut? Balance being wayyyyy out on your TC? Bushes and bearings that hold the TC "stable" being next to shot? Engine bearings being toast?
The TC not turning true would have a massive flow on effect. Rare, but can absolutely happen. You may have gotten a Monday blues/Friday fever car off the assembly line?
Shit of a thing to happen. If that's true...Don't forget the starter ring gear is also welded to the TC....lol...how was your starter??
Volkenstein
Volkenstein,
I am glad that someone of your experience has not heard of such a bad experience with flexplates. I do look forward to buying another AS Super Beetle someday. I bought the car when it was about 33 years old so the history is questionable. Of course, when I got it, the vacuum lines were not hooked up correctly. Is the resulting 'slamming' enough to damage components severely ? It seems like it would be.
Something else that I remember is that when I adjusted the control valve to engage the clutch smoothly with the car not moving, the clutch engaged too slowly from D1 to D2. I never could get that adjustment just right.
Volkenstein,
I forgot to answer your question. The starter was fine. The shattered flexplates were the problem. Which surprised me. They appear rather sturdy.
Hi Folks
Well, I have never ever heard of any flex plates shattering.
I used loctite [extra strong] on the torque converter bolts once and when I went to undo those bolts, one of the nuts that are brazed onto the flexplate came off.
I still have that flexplate and hope to have the nut re-brazed back on one day.
Flexplates are made to Flex. naturally, so having them shatter seems that they were flexing more than is normal... Going by Your post, it seems that the VW trained mechanic didn't really know how to fit a flexplate correctly....
Maybe He fitted them all exactly the same way.... which wasn't the correct way... maybe a little modification???????? was used....
But I'm sure it is NOT a normal problem....
Lee in Australia
Hi Lee,
It was two different repair shops. One one the west coast of Florida, the other on the east coast of Florida. That just adds to the mystery. All I know for sure is that autostick vehicles are becoming much too rare. There were not that many produced and too many have been converted to 4 speeds. If I do ever get another one as I plan, I will make it part of my estate and that it be kept an autostick with a link to this website. LOL.
I am not exactly sure what you mean by your flex plate(s) "shattered"-- I assume you mean they cracked through in several places?
I have never had that happen, but it is ENTIRELY possible for a flex plate to not turn true, so much so that it hits against the front side of the engine case. Ask me how I know.
I was revving the engine up several months ago, to check my timing, when I heard a huge bang and a couple of the torque converter bolts shot out the back of the car, very nearly hitting me in the face-- along with a HUGE scream of metal on metal. I shut the engine down immediately, took the right rear tire off, and looked through the bell housing window at the torque converter and saw this:
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1472322.jpg)
I pulled the engine, and found the flex plate to be severely damaged around its edge:
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1475321.jpg)
I also found one of the torque converter tab holes had been elongated somehow:
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1475320.jpg)
Upon further investigation I discovered that my engine case had been impacted by the flex plate:
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1479336.jpg)
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1479335.jpg)
I finally figured out that the captive nuts welded on to the back side of the flex plate had hit against the engine case and sheared off (note the bolt hole in the flex plate with no nut on the back side anymore):
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1475324.jpg)
So apparently my flex plate was not turning true, and finally hit against the engine case with enough force to shear the captive nuts off. Perhaps the gland nut was loose, or perhaps the flex plate got significantly warped when it was installed. But there was also a rumor on the samba that may be true or not, that the torque converter in autosticks can actually expand with heat from the engine/ ATF fluid inside it, to the point where it pushes the flex plate against the engine case. I'm not sure how much I buy into that theory, but I guess it's possible too. However I am actually reusing the same torque converter right now, with a new flex plate, and have not had any problems since.
Sb001,
Maybe I should not have used the word 'shattered'. Maybe sheared would have been better. I never saw the flexplates. The car was dropped off at a repair shop and picked up after being 'repaired'. When whatever happened to the flexplates while driving was the sound of tearing metal and then of course, an immediate loss of any connection between the engine and gearbox. BTW...your pictures are great. The only real clue that I can give you is that before the flexplates failed, there was ticking sound coming from the flexplate area.
I am not an experienced mechanic at all. Decades ago, I did excellent tune ups....just minor stuff like that.
Thank you,
John
Hello everyone,
I found this post: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=425143
I am becoming more convinced that 'slamming' can be destructive.
John my guess is that the "ticking" sound you heard was the flex plate (or at least its welded captive nuts) hitting against the engine case, I'd be willing to bet that the mechanic(s) who reinstalled your flex plates did not have the proper VW tool to hold the flex plate true, so they did what I do- used a makeshift locking tool to keep the flex plate from spinning around when installing it on the crankshaft. I made one out of piece of bent metal with holes in it, bolting one end to the engine case and the other to the flex plate using one of the torque converter bolts:
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1185153.jpg)
You can see how using something like this could potentially warp the flex plate, by bending it the direction of the locking tool. That's why I have those washers between the metal piece and the engine case, to use as spacers to keep the flex plate straight and even with the engine case.
sb001,
That makes sense. I am learning so much from this website. I am going to keep learning in preparation for my next 73-75 Super Beetle autostick if there are any around by the time that I am prepared to buy. All autosticks seem to be becoming more rare by the day. Very sad. This may be a bit off topic, maybe not: Acura has produced a very smooth shifting sequential automated manual transmission that shifts very smoothly due to the addition of a torque converter. It reminds me of a modern day autostick.
John-
That is awesome about the Acura tranny! I had no idea- very cool. I'll have to read up a bit more about that.
As for autosticks being fairly rare- I think there are still WAAAY plenty out there, even with all the ones that were trashed in salvage yards or swapped to 4 speeds. I stumbled upon one about a month ago for sale in my area with a seized engine and bought it for $750:
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1558876.jpg)
Sb001,
Great find ! Keep us posted on its restoration please.