...and it defeated me. :-[
I started this thread over on that OTHER VW forum, but for those who don't frequent that site, here is what I posted over there (I'm just copying and pasting, it's late and I'm tired ):
Events unfolded as follows:
Me and a buddy tried to take the engine out today. We finally found the window in the transmission casing to remove the 4 bolts that hold the torque converter- waayy easier if you remove the right rear wheel then you can easily see the window and get to the bolts.
We removed all 4 torque converter bolts then removed the engine bolts and tried to pull the engine out. However no matter how much we pulled the engine toward the rear of the car there just didn't seem to be enough clearance up front to lower the engine down-it kept hanging up on the transmission casing. We even pulled up the engine seal to try to get a bit more space with no luck. We finally figured out that the torque converter, even with the bolts out was coming WITH the engine. And I'm telling you we tried everything to pry that sucker loose so it would stay in the transmission housing, with absolutely zero luck. It was STUCK GOOD. We finally decided not to force it and put everything back together-- however in trying to get the torque converter bolts back on I ended up dropping 2 of them down into the torque converter housing! Brick wall I managed to get the other two back on at opposite sides and just hoped it would be enough. Got everything else back together, fired the car up, and BBAAAAMMM!!! A huge loud BANG, I immediately cut the car off. We looked all around and couldn't see anything wrong, so I fired it up again and it ran smooth. Took it around the block and seemed to be OK, when i got back to the garage buddy was standing there with the 2 torque converter bolts I had dropped in there! Shocked They had apparently been spit out somehow, and they were chewed up pretty good.
So that's where I stand right now- need 2 more TC bolts, probably do a simple oil change on it and then call it a life.
Never could figure out why the torque converter was so stuck on there- is that the TC seal it was stuck to??
What did I do wrong?? :P
I should clarify that we had everything else unhooked, including autostick related items (ATF hoses vacuum servo hoses etc).
i have a tip on not droppinp those torqe converter bolts i tied some 8 pound test fish line on the bolt between washer and bolt head left a good leanth of line that way if droped u just fish it out, after u get bolt started cut off the line
That's not a bad idea!
Any ideas about getting the torque converter separated from the drive plate? That was my main problem- when trying to pull the engine, even with the torque converter bolts removed the converter was coming with the engine. I don't know if I could use some sort of prying tool...
Sb,
I don't envy you one bit. Horrible predicament. So...what has happened is the TC spigot has rust-welded itself to the Glandnut. One thing I should point out right here is DON'T pry on the Flexplate to seperate them. Oh...yeah...check your bellhousing and see if the bolts did damage.
You can get the engine/TC converter out as one unit...BUT...your rear valance panel has to be in very good condition (ie no rear enders) and you have to drop off tinware, exhausts etc - ANYTHING blocking your engine's path backward. You have to pull it straight back to avoid wrecking the TC, Support tube & internal bushes.
Scour thesamba classifieds...they are a 12 point bolt...finicky little things. IIRC you can get others - I think Lee has used something else.
HTH
Volkenstein
Thanks Volkenstein, unfortunately I just don't see any way that engine is dropping without getting the TC off first- when we were pulling the engine with it attached we pulled the engine seal and the breast plate tinware piece and the TC was still not close to clearing the bell housing. The front "lip" of the TC barely cleared it, I thought we had it, then I realized the TC body went further back than that. I'm afraid I'm not going to have any choice but to try to pry it off. Maybe using the spaded end of the L lug wrench and then twisting the wrench so I'm not really prying on the flex plate just trying to force the two pieces apart. What if I sprayed it down with PB blaster or something similar?
I think the bell housing is OK, I think those bolts got spit out the window that you use for removing the bolts from the TC and flex plate. The bolts that were in there (and the bolts I have seen for sale online) are simple 8mm hex head bolts, they must be the official replacements for the original 12 point bolts:
http://www.evwparts.com/vwparts/001301095A.html
Hi
Those bolts are special bolts made just for that... Some cars had multi point bolts but still the same size..
I did actually use 4 standard Gr8 hi tensile bolts cut to the exact length..
I did however have to grind My socket down so it would fit onto the head of the bolt..
I did happen to find 4 of the special hex headed bolts... You need to use 4 of the same bolts for balance.
All the workshop manuals stress not to drop a bolt in there... I've been lucky, about 8 times or more...
Your torque converter seal may not leak as it hasn't been moved on the shaft, as once they are moved they will leak..
You may have to lower the gearbox to get Your engine out..
As Sean, pointed out, the flexplate that replaces the flywheel on these cars, is VERY easy to damage, which would make it unusable... I can't remember anyone having that problem before...
but We don't have any rust issues over here, as there is no salt on the roads in winter...
cheer
LEE in Australia
I guess the way I'm looking at it is even if I dropped the transmission to get the engine out, eventually the converter and flex plate are going to have to be pried apart somehow, so why not just go ahead and do it do it now-- even if I damage the flex plate at least it means the engine will come out, then I can just get a new flex plate (they don't look too expensive and I can make sure this doesn't happen again by adding anti-rusting agent.)
Would it make any difference or potentially damage any other internal components if I were to spray PB blaster in there?
sb001,
No. PB or Kroil or whatever is fine. If you aim it down the gap between Flexplate and TC you'll hurt nothing except your sense of smell.
HTH
volkenstein
Quote from: volkenstein on 23 October 2013, 07:43
sb001,
No. PB or Kroil or whatever is fine. If you aim it down the gap between Flexplate and TC you'll hurt nothing except your sense of smell.
HTH
volkenstein
Thanks! :D I went to the auto parts store yesterday to buy some of that stuff and they highly recommended a can of this stuff called FreezeOff, specifically designed for rust-frozen parts, so I bought a can of that. I'll try spraying it once or twixe daily over the next few days and then try to tackle the job again this weekend.
Well I am getting kicked out of this guy's garage, needs the space for other things. So I guess trying to pull the engine again is going to have to wait until another time.
Unfortunately I only have 2 of the 4 torque converter bolts back in there- would it be OK to drive the car like this just to get it back home? The ones I have reinstalled in the car are on opposite sides of the converter so at least they are providing as much strength and evenness as possible. I have ordered another set of bolts but they won't be in for another few days.
sb001,
Given it's rust welded and has two opposing bolts in it...I would take the chance, late at night & crawl to your new residence.
Just avoid unnecessary rev's is what I would recommend.
HTH
Volkenstein
Quote from: volkenstein on 25 October 2013, 04:09
sb001,
Given it's rust welded and has two opposing bolts in it...I would take the chance, late at night & crawl to your new residence.
Just avoid unnecessary rev's is what I would recommend.
HTH
Volkenstein
*whew* well I made it back home just fine, the drivetrain seems just as smooth as when I drove it over there so I guess everything is good. There was no real way to get back home except on the interstate, so I took the chance, I figured once its up to interstate speed there is no stop and go traffic and less strain on those bits, and it made it back just fine.
Sometime in the future I will revisit this rusted on issue and see what I can do.
Great news..
Lee
My only issue is that as I was driving back home there was the faint but distinct smell of heater fumes/ exhaust in the cabin. You know how a bug's heater has that distinct odor to it when you kick it on-- it smelled like that pretty much all the way home, and also when I went out into the garage this morning where I had put the car. I double checked all my heater vents and flaps during the drive and they were all closed off, so I'm not sure where the smell was coming from-- I sure don't remember it being that way before I drove it over there, and again the garage smelled like it when I went out there this morning too. My first guess would be that heater box hose flaps are not secure anymore (we had disconnected them at the heater box end to drop the engine) and it is leaking heat into the cabin, any other ideas?
Hi
Yes, the heater box flaps may still be open...
I don't really notice any smell when the heater is on..
apart if some oil has leaked onto the heater box..
but I degrease under My engine about once a month with foaming $3 a can degreaser and the garden hose..
as VW engine do like to leak at times...
cheers
LEE
OK got the engine pulled today (can't even describe how much difference it makes to have a LIFT to use!!)
Took a look at the bell housing, TC and flex plate:
Ugh. Cracked the bell housing around the outer part of the lower left bolt hole (most of that shaft is still OK, its just the outer edge I messed up, so I think it will still be OK)-- see pic #1 below.
Also warped the outer edge of the flex plate in the area of one of the TC bolt holes (see pic #2) and warped the coinciding bolt tab on the TC.
Sheesh.