well i posted over at the samba and was directed over here. this site seems more directed towards autostick
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2245972#2245972
theres the link to the post so far.
Hi,
After reading thesamba thread am I correct in saying that the only time you hear hissing is when you attempt to change gears? If that's so it sounds like a torn servo bladder. BTW, good for you for replacing the hoses ( with reinforced type hose I hope? ) and checking the shifter wire path.
Now for some slightly ugly news. The factory that made the bladder kits burn't down or went bust so any remaining stocks are dwindling and the price is escalating.
To test it, disconnect the hose at the servo, and the servo arm from the clutch arm. Push the servo arm all the way into the servo, put a finger over the hose spigot and then try to pull the servo arm out. If you can pull it out, even very slowly, your bladder is stuffed.
If it is, disconnect the servo from the clutch arm, remove the hose, remove the servo holding nuts and pull it off.
Undo the screw on the clamp and remove. Careful with removing the clamp, it's really stiff and you have to lift it over the lips of the two servo halves. You can then lift out the bladder assembly and give it a good eyeball. If you find it's just a hole as opposed to a tear, try a bicycle vulcaniser patch. It's worked before ;D .
Otherwise, try the online shops, or email me and I'll send you the name of a guy who is actually making the bladders. He's made a test batch and they look hot and he's installed one in his car as a test bed.
IF YOUR BLADDER IS OK....then hissing still indicates a vacuum leak somewhere in the hose circuitry.
PS. When it's all connected the clutch is actuated by the servo arm pulling into the servo, not pushing out. Also, don't adjust anything on the servo arm until you've eliminated your current problem/s.
HTH
Volkenstein
yeah im not getting any kind of suction or restraint when i did what you said to do. but i couldnt get the dang clutch arm totally off i pulled the cotter pin off of it and it just WONT BUDGE.am i missing something? i dont have any book besides a chilton and it only says hopw to adjust it not take it off.oh yeah, should i be able to manualy do the clutch by hand? like have someone inside the car switch into a gear while i move the clutch arm?i might take you up on the offer with the bladder im having bad connection trouble right now so who knows when ill be back ::edit:: interweb is fixed but i got a question. the hose coming from the control valve to the carb picture here===> http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0012.jpg <====
is the small hose in the right hole? i took it out replacing the hose and forgot to mark what hole it came out of
Yup, that's the right place to put it.
Dfrommi,
The guy who is re-popping bladders is Michael and his email is hahamiki@hotmail.com . I had a squiz at your pic and the CV hose is hooked up correctly. A little freaked over the DVDA retard hose though :o .
The best place I've found for the VW cloth braided hoses (Green retard hose (4.5mm ID) and 12mm wire re-inforced vacuum hose) is
www.belmetric.com . Part No RH12W for the wired 12mm stuff.
From what I've seen of a Ghia's engine bay the large bore hose runs are quite long. If you aren't using some form of re-inforced hose they'll collapse in short order.
To disconnect the servo arm, take out the cotter, let the washer drop. Push the pin out and then the plastic bush and the other washer is on top. Do this with both arms in the "at rest" position.
If you want, I can either post here or send some exploded views of the servo assembly and hints/tips from a post on the old board.
Volkenstein
I absolutely CANNOT get this &%@#*& pin out of the servo arm sprayed the hell out of it with wd40 pounded it with a breaker bar and a hammer and it will not budge. any more tricks to get this thing off? just to be sure the pin goes towards the top of the car? pics would help a lot too :P
PB Blaster. WD40 blows, IMHO.
dfrommi,
:o . Err...best lay off the heavy duty tools for the time being! You don't want to do something regrettable....
I'll post a pic tonight of the pin/bush stuff along with the servo.
It shouldn't be that bad..unless a PO has had a brainstorm which you are now paying for.... ???
Volkenstein
dfrommi,
OK, here's what the pin arrangement looks like on the clutch arm :
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e210/ctefeh/VWSERVO/Clutcharmend.jpg)
And the pin pieces and bushes :
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e210/ctefeh/VWSERVO/ClArmPin.jpg)
So now that I have visited the shed I see your problem. The Pin appears to be rusted to the servo shaft eyelet. Note in the second pic it looks bright. That's because it has a hardchrome shell, but even mine has wear in the centre where the servo eyelet is. The bushes in the second pic are plastic and fit into the clutch arm, slipped into the inside and pushed up, leaving the two wider surfaces to ride on the eyelet.
I'd initially do what Cobey has suggested. Repeat soak it for 24-72 hours in PB Blaster or Kroil (?) I believe is another brand you have over there. Squirt as much as you can into the inside of the clutch arm.
I'd then use adjustable pliers (we call them water pump pliers) over the arm, squeezing the bottom of the pin (where the cotter went).
If that doesn't help, then run a rivet through the cotter hole, bend it around the shaft and use pliers to grip the rivet bits and TWIST the pin.
The last two thoughts are to fab up a tool a'la a ball joint seperator, or to scribe a line across the clutch arm/clutch shaft union (at the gearbox), undo the pinch bolt and the servo bolts and remove the servo assembly/clutch arm as one unit and work on it after it's out.
HTH
Volkenstein
dfrommi,
When you get past your current woes you can disassemble the servo until you get this :
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e210/ctefeh/VWSERVO/57a5f3ef.jpg)
Some tips.
- Mark the two servo halves so you can line them back up during re-assembly
- The metal band is a stiff S.O.B. and you should undo the screw and remove it completely, then prise it (with hands only) off over the servo cups lips.
- The big nut on the back of the servo bladder assembly is 27mm from memory. Don't muck around with the adjustable section of the servo rod. Paint one face of the large hex portion a lurid/visible colour.
- What looks like a "C" clip in my photo is the remains of a fibre washer between the servo arm and the metal disc. I made up an aluminium washer 1mm thick to replace it, but you can use anything just as thick (gasket paper etc)
Anyway, after a thorough clean, check that the vacuum spigot for the large bore hose is tight and then you can assemble the servo arm/bladder again and get to here :
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e210/ctefeh/VWSERVO/Servostrt.jpg)
You don't need to go crazy tightening the big nut, just give it a good wrist tightening.
Assembly tips.
- Put the bladder assembly onto one half, pop the other half on aligning the marks you made and then turn the bladder assembly so that the eyelet on the servo arm is parallel to the two mounting studs on the outer case.
- When you put the metal band on it'll be a bit of a struggle. Be really carefull that you don't hook up the bladder.
- When the band is on, work the servo arm in/out (back to "center at rest") to centre the bladder.
- When putting the screw back in, as you are tightening the band with it, check the metal band for alignment over the two halves.
- Again, don't go crazy tightening that screw.
Test it again with your finger over the spigot, with the servo arm bottomed againt the back of the servo. It should not budge.
HTH
Volkenstein
I GOT IT OUT!!!! just short of strapping a bomb to it too ;D we called around at some VW places around here asking prices on just to have it taken and and looked at. every place but one place near sylvan lake/keego harbor wanted around $105 an hour just to look at it...so we called this place in keego were we used to live and the guy said just to heat it up a bit(which was my idea in the first place but my pops didn't want to). after basically melting out the dang plastic bushes out the pin still didn't come out! what it is the rod coming out of the servo is actually screwed inside the pin!no wonder why a hammer couldn't get it out ;D heres some pictures of the bad bladder in the servo
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0017.jpg
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0016.jpg
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0015.jpg
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0013.jpg
now to get a rebuild kit for it. anyone know any places that might carry one?
dfrommi,
The factory went bust or burn't down. Supply of the kit is extremely limited.
Joe at www.evwparts.com may have a few.
These guys say they do :
http://www.bugcity.com/cgi-bin/WebStore/indexNEW.cgi/mi=yes/srchcd=113142055RK
This guy is repopping just the bladder, and I posted about him already, name is Michael :
hahamiki@hotmail.com
Maybe try Anthony @ ISPWEST.
At US 59.95 for the kit I'd be trying Michael!!! &%$# me!! 250% up in two years!!! 25% up in the last 3 months!!
Fleagay looks like a good option and there is one on US Fleagay.
CIP1, Karmannghia.com and the usual suspects no longer advertise the kit.
The pin was screwed in? Has a thread on it? :o I smell the work of a previous owner.....
I had a look at all your photos...check those large bore CV hoses. If they aren't the VW stuff, they'd best be 1/2" Brake booster hose or they'll collapse.
HTH
Volkenstein
yeah those really small hoses do need to be replaced you can collapse them with your fingers and im sure with the heat and a vacuum they will do it with ease. the guy at the local mopar store said this was his "vacuum" line. ill just grab some other stuff. no the pin its self wasn't screwed in the pin has a female hole in it for the rod coming from the servo adjuster rod to screw into. once i get it all the way out ill take a pic. the guy in sylvan lake Michigan said he can get a rebuild kit for it ill see how much he wants for it before i do anything else. btw fleagay = ebay correct?only thing i found was the bladder from some guy in Israel.and i REALLY don't like ebay at all so i don't think its going to be an option thanks a bunch for the help
dfrommi,
Michael is from Israel ;D..funny about that!! He and I have exchanged the odd email after he saw my posts regarding the bladder and the CV on the old forum.
Please take a pic, I'm having some difficulty mentally picturing your pin setup.
Regards
Volkenstein
well i received the rebuilt servo today (they didn't have the rebuild kit just a rebuilt servo for 20$ more) and tossed it in but still the same problem. Before putting the rebuilt servo in i took note of how much free play was in the clutch arm its self. You can pull the arm all the way back (towards the engine) then finally get some kind of click.by clicking i would assume that the clutch disengaged or engaged. and push it all the way in (towards the front of the car) and finally get a click when its almost as far as it will go that direction. this is about 6 inches of play. should i have that much play?if not what is required to fix it? a new clutch plate? ill take a picture tonight of the pin. the pin its self will not come out unless i cut it out
dfrommi,
I don't like the sound of that. Tell me whether you've removed the clutch arm from the gearbox or not.
So..it is a PULL clutch, not a PUSH (like most cars). So you're ability to move the clutch arm until it butts up against the bellhousing is OK.
What is not OK is that you can move it 6 inches without feeling any resistance at all. From memory this takes it way past the servo-to-trans connection point. If you haven't removed the clutch arm, then I suspect the Throwout Bearing Fork has lost contact with the arms on the T-O bearing....or the very worst is that the arms on the fork or T-OB are broken.
The T-O bearing has a flange which resides inside of the clutch cover's fingers and unless you heard massive "sproing!!!" sounds at some stage I don't think you've pulled it out.
Unfortunately..out with the engine & then the trans (well, you can do the trans in situ if you absolutely must...) to delve in there and sort it out.
Since this is a huge job, first check that your clutch arm pinch bolt isn't loose and second that when you stop when moving the arm away from the bellhousing, it's a really hard mechanical stop you can't go past (no hammer action!!!!) rather than finding the clutch cover/T-O bearing take up point.....
Let us know and we can go from there....
Regards
Volkenstein
okay so i got the engine out today. wasn't very hard at all! but i do suspect that its going to be much harder putting it back in ;D. me talking about the 6 inches may have been exaggerated a little bit but it does still seem to have a bit too much play. to show you what im talking about i took a movie for you with my camera. yay digital cameras! MOVIE==>http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=clutcharm.flv
and heres a picture of the pin thingy not a very good one but ill get a better one once the trans is out. http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0024.jpg
Dfrommi,
I'll have a sticky beak once I'm home and get back to you later.
Don't remove the torque converter!! Strap it in place right now, unless you want the thrill of shelling out some bucks for a new TC seal.
Regards
Volkenstein
took the trans out today and it looks like the arm portion at the gear box was loose! i tried to tighten it up a bit and the bolt broke right off.... :'(.but with little muscle the arm came right off from the clutch release shaft. so i took a movie of what the clutch shaft was doing tell me if this looks normal? http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0031.flv
oh btw i got a little better picture of the pin. someone freaking welded it on! why the heck would someone do such a thing =( http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0030.jpg .
to me that play with the clutch release looks pretty good. hopfully just fixing this bolt that broke and replacing it will do the trick ;D wishful thinking?
Dfrommi,
Sorry about no reply, my ISP was dead all night. You've got the trans out now so I'll write a spiel in some free time today after I look at the new piccies/vid.
Welded?? ::) That's just marvy...may the lice of 1000 camels be upon the PO!
Volkenstein
dfrommi,
OK, your trans is out. I was going to say last night that your clutch action looked normal because you changed position to get leverage to push further. That told me it appears you hit the take up point and pushed through. Maybe a little too far since you went back to the bracket. You may have over-centred your clutch pressure plate.
The movement in the second video looks ok as well.
Now...how far do you want to go??
Let's deal with the clutch arm first. I can't see whether the pin is brazed or arc/mig'd on. If it's brazed together, then unbraze it. If it's been arc/mig'd I would remove the weld by either sawing the weld with a fine blade mini hacksaw (after taking off the adjuster nut) or cut it with a Dremel cut-off wheel. The other way is to drill the pin out with a suitable metric drill bit from one end. First test whether the pin is case hardened or not as you may have to grind through a bit before you drill.
Similarly, you have to have that pinch bolt problem corrected. The gearbox shaft (if you clean it up) has a very fine spline around it and the clutch arm is fixed by this and the clamping action of the pinch bolt.
I hope you scribed a line across the top of the clutch arm and gearbox shaft? If you didn't, don't worry too much as it'll be easier to adjust everything with the gearbox out.
Now the biggie...the trans. If you want to make 100% sure everything is OK you'll have to pop the bellhousing off. You'll lose all your transaxle oil as two nuts are up inside the box ahead of the R & P. That means you'll lose your trans pan gasket if you aren't careful as they are cork type. I made my own out of nitrile rubber sheet and a wad punch simply because no-one had them in stock. :-\
Once all that is done and the remaining exposed nuts are off the bellhousing can be easily (no removing the torque converter!!!) removed and you can examine the clutch components at leisure.
If you don't want to delve deep into the innards, fix up your clutch arm and perform this test:
Rotate the gearbox shaft clockwise *with fingers only* until it "stops" . Put the clutch arm on so it is away from the bellhousing a little and tighten the pinch bolt. Now attempt to pull back (away from the bellhousing!) the arm 1 1/2 inches, then let go. If it resists but moves initially and then snaps back toward the bellhousing when you let go with no hideous sounds, I'd call that good enough to install and hope for the best.
Post up when you've got your external problems sorted, and we can go forward with other nasty adjustments before you sling your gearbox in.
HTH
Volkenstein
quick question about the control valve to servo. should there always be some kind of suction coming from the control valve to the servo? or only suction when its being shifted into gear? because when i was trying to fix the problem with everything in the car there was always a suction to the servo. just when you switched gears the suction was greater. i ask this because i really don't know how the arm would go back out of the servo besides the rubber inside of it. and to me it would seem even the suction with out being put into gear was too great for the rubber to push the arm back out. PS when i do that test should i have the servo on or off? :edit: took off the bell housing etc and inspected the clutch assembly. never rebuilding an stick shift before but have done a th350 for my trans am this is pretty foreign to me. but not the plate its self. took some pictures of the inners of the clutch stuff. http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0033.jpg clutch plate
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0032.jpg
spring plate
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0038.flv
and a movie of the play with the release bearing
this play with the release bearing(i think thats the name of it) is the only movement i can get with the clutch arm now. unless i put a BUTT load of pressure on it to bring it towards were the servo would be. before the clicking and extra movement i was getting was from the arm jumping teeth on the shaft its self. thanks so much for the help so far we will get this done! let me know how all these parts look
dfrommi,
Re vacuum always present from CV to servo, no. That would indicate either the solenoid is being fired by a ground/short in your electrics, or your something is stuck open in the CV. My money on the first, start at the gearstick and work backward. An easy way to tell is to do what you were doing when you noticed, and pull the power feed wire (coming from coil) off the solenoid. If the vacuum drops to nothing...ground/short problem.
Soooo....wish my spare clutch setup looked like yours!! ;D Mate, everything (cover, plate, TOB etc) looks sweet, but is the clutch lining truly green??? They are brown normally...
Seriously, by the look of it you have had a new clutch setup fitted at some stage. How thick is the plate? They wear extremely slowly.
Look both sides and see how much lining is above the rivets. From your pics - looks like plenty.
Mike and I have compared thickness of some second hand ones we have and they are around the 7.5mm mark (from memory) with plenty of life left and both of ours have 100,000 miles + on them.
I would button it back up after cleaning the crap off the housing etc and make sure the plate faces the correct way.
The installer may have screwed this up. The clutch cover small bolts are 11 ft/lbs torque.
Fit it back up *ensuring* both arms of the TOB engage in the clutch fork properly. A good idea to use the clutch fork to pull the bellousing back onto the gearbox. That way you know it's correct.
How is the clutch arm coming along?
Volkenstein
hahhaa no its not green. the carport I'm working underneath is made of some green sheet type stuff and gives everything a green glow when its really sunny out.
dfrommi,
Since you are ripping into it, a few other things worth mentioning for re-assembly and FYI.
EDIT : OK, trick of the light....kewl ;D
Got some High Temp grease handy? A little mo2 grease as well? Put a small smear of High Temp in the pilot bearing in the carrier plate.
On your gearbox, there's a big shoulder which surrounds the splined input shaft. Smear a little mo2 (molybdenum disulphide grease) grease on that shoulder. Enough to colour it slightly, don't slather it like butter on bread!
Make sure your plate rides on the G'box input shaft splines smoothly. the tiniest, tiniest smear of HTB on the splines if you must.
A little FYI. The TOB is meant to be sloppy and rattle around inside the clutch cover. That means it's got clearance between itself and the clutch plate. It is stabilised in action because it fits onto that shoulder I mentioned above. Most of the side-side play disappears once it's on, leaving forward-back play which is what you want.....
Also...if you need a section of the Bentley dealing with Autosticks, a kind member of the old board scanned it and bunged it into a file. It's a whopper - 6 odd Megabyte...but I really think you should have it. Want a copy? I can choke your Inbox with it :D.
HTH
Volkenstein
ha yeah had some high temp grease and already did what ya asked and even put a little into the needle bearings in the TOB to make it run nice and smooth. it was a bit tricky getting the shaft to line up though. that we be great if you could send that bently section my way
Just to but in :)
This thread is superb and is helping me sort out our bug with a similar problem
Thanks guys :)
Anychance of the bentleyfile being emailed to me at davidhiggs@hotmail.com
let me know if there is a cost involved.
Thanks again
Hopefully our 68 bug will be back on the road soon now.
okay i got the clutch arm on there like you said. heres a movie of what it does now. http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0043.flv
the arm is REALLY hard to move towards the servo. are you sure the suction would be great enough to move the arm this much? i mean it almost takes me 2 hands to move it 1 1/2 inch and I'm a pretty big guy. how would i go about testing the electrical with the engine and trans out?
Thanks for the email ;D
Brilliant stuff.
You guys are brilliant
anytime ;)
Hiya df,
Just chiming in here about the electrical.............you're in good hands with Sean on the clutch action situation.
The reason Sean recommended checking the wiring rather than the control valve is that the control valve is pretty close to being bullet-proof. Not to say that they cannot go south, it's just more likely to be a short in the wiring.
With the guts of the car spilled all over the driveway, the easiest way to check out the electricals is first...by sight. Take a look at obvious wear points. For example, the spot at which the blue lead exits the bottom of the shift lever is notorious for wearing and shorting out. Anyplace a wire passes through the body (take a look under the rear seat - driver's side....you'll see what I mean) or at gang connections (like the 15 side of your coil). Is your solenoid free and clear of the body (this can be a problem with Bugs - I'm not sure about KGs)? If you spot any frays or cracks, it's time to play electrician.
On the other hand, if everything looks OK, then it's time to break out the multimeter and test your lines for continuity. That will give the final word on the OK/no OK situation for each line.
dfrommi,
I'll have to admit..I can't remember whether I've tried that myself. I can resolve that over the weekend though ;D .
So..ever onwards. I've been thinking about a cheap test on the CV unit for your vacuum worries. A sticking point is that when the solenoid is at rest, the servo is partially vented because the main check valve is completing a vacuum storage circuit. When the solenoid is fired, the main check valve is pushed off one sealing place and onto another one which prevents venting and allows stored vacuum to actuate the servo... :-\ BUT, the passages involved in venting "at rest" should be minimal..try this -
How about you just pull the power feed wire (black wire from coil through a fuse and onto the solenoid) off, then grab the hose that goes to the servo and blow into it (grab a big lungfull of air!). It should, all things being equal, resist this to a large degree. If that checks out OK...see Mike's reply above ;D
Allrighty, back to the gearbox. I still think after watching the video everything is OK. The bladder inside the servo is thick 'n' tough, unless it's ancient and I reckon with the right amount of setting up adjustment it will play ball. Bear in mind that the vacuum will be drawing against a large surface area inside that servo.
So...get that pin out of the clutch arm. Not knowing how complete your other servo unit is, try and preserve the eyelet portion as it's a left hand thread. Once that's done you can set the servo arm measurements back to "new clutch plate specs" as per that Bentley section and bolt it back up to the G'box ready to have some fun 'n' games before you sling it back in....
HTH
Volkenstein
well when we first bought the car we thought that the problem might have just been the wire coming out of the stick shifter because you could see they tried to patch it up but did a poopy job. we fixed that up and got the control valve clicking when you try to shift. if there was an electrical problem would it still be clicking?
Hiya df,
Probably not.
The control valve solenoid is the "end of the line" electrically speaking. If the solenoid is actuating then you have a positive electrical contact from the shift lever to the solenoid. However, there is one more thing to check before you move on to the vacuum system. Were I you, I'd pull the solenoid off the control valve and make sure the plunger rod is moving as it should. Yeah, the "click" you're hearing probably indicates that all is well, but it's a good idea to get a visual confirmation.
well we got the transmission cleaned up and servo properly mounted on and gave it a nice paint job before we put it in(pictures soon to come). now i see how it should work with the servo and the clutch arm. the servo is actually pulled way out and with it adjusted properly it even brings the clutch arm away from the bell housing. installed the trans and got all the electrical hooked up today. btw there is an electrical connection near the gear shift housing. a 3 pronged one what is it for? when we first took out the trans we didn't unhook this and don't think it was hooked up in the first place. before we put the engine in we need to get weather stripping for around the engine and the engine hood. anyone know where to get this?
Hiya df,
Quote from: dfrommi on 27 June 2007, 06:11
btw there is an electrical connection near the gear shift housing. a 3 pronged one what is it for? when we first took out the trans we didn't unhook this and don't think it was hooked up in the first place. before we put the engine in we need to get weather stripping for around the engine and the engine hood. anyone know where to get this?
Hmmm...we could have a small semantics problem here. I'm a little confused as to what you are referring to when you write "gear shift housing". Shift lever? Nose cone? Something else? df, can you further explain just where this connector is? Colors of wire leading into and out of would be a big help.
When I need quality replacement parts I always go to Wolfsburg West. They will cost a bit more, but they will always be of the highest quality.
dfrommi,
Already? Flying into it ;).
Hate to be a handbrake but the manual is somewhat ambiguous about setting the clutch arm/servo arm relationship.
JohnR and Myself worked out a more sensible method and he reported that his beastie shifts really well.
So, you have set the servo arm measurements to spec, yes? 8mm between the boss base and start of the large hex portion, and then adjusted the eyelet out until boss base to centre of eyelet is 77mm.
Since yours is together, disconnect the servo arm from the clutch arm, undo that pinch bolt on your clutch arm and take it off the spline. Rotate the spline clockwise until you feel resistance. Drop the clutch arm on again, close to bellhousing.
Push your servo arm all the way back into your servo (if you can cap the vacuum spigot, do it so it locks the servo all the way back. Take a measurement from the servo bracket to centre of the servo arm eyelet.
From that point, rotate the clutch arm toward the servo until the clutch arm centre is 30-35mm from the centre of the eyelet (in it's retracted position). Tighten the clutch arm pinch bolt to spec (22 Ft/lbs). This will allow the T-O bearing some free movement.
JohnR settled on 30mm in the end.
DO NOT rotate the clutch arm until that pinch bolt is tightened!!! If you do, you'll have to start all over again.
Once tightened, release the servo arm and connect it to the clutch arm and away you go. If I haven't mentioned it already, paint one side of the large hex portion of the servo arm.
One more thing to check at the CV. There is an adjustment screw, usually with a cap on it toward the firewall end. Check that you can see 2 1/2 threads exposed, that includes the starting portion of the thread. This can be tough to turn and I recommend a spare set of hands to make sure your CV rubber mounts don't tear. Also the biggest screwdriver that will fit the slot too. This is the recommended initial setting, and you adjust this to change the shift speed.
HTH
Volkenstein
yep i adjusted everything according to my manual. picture before the trans went in
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=0626071654.jpg
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=0626071654a.jpg
just waiting for the engine weather gasget things to arrive to put in :D :D cant wait
Dfrommi,
Looking Schweet!..
Call me a worry wart, but in the second photo, the servo arm is miles away from an "at rest" position. The spring inside and bladder shape should hold it all roughly centred in the housing, not fully extended like that. Another photo trick??
And a few last worthless tips ;D?
Clean up the gland nut ID on the engine, and the matching spigot on the torque converter & put a little Mo2 grease on both of them.
You may want to consider removing the servo side, or both, axles at the gearbox. Not sure about a KG's body shape but I had to roll the gearbox to make the servo clear the engine seal lip as I was pulling it out. As I had my axles disconnected at the time it was all OK, but I'm half thinking the CV's may run up against the engine/G'box frame horn.
DON'T use loctite on the four TC to flexplate plate bolts. Clean them up and torque to spec.
Regards
Volkenstein
so the servo shouldn't be pulled out like that? with it at the "at rest" position i really doubt the suction to the servo would be enough to pull this clutch arm.the arm is really really tough to move by hand
dfrommi,
Not if yours is "at rest" in that fully extended position. Set the servo arm eyelet/clutch arm as I've described. Better the arms move enough to release the clutch plate, than pull from all the way out there and over-centre the T-O bearing/clutch cover!
JohnR got a brand new plate/cover and set it to spec and it's fine.
Tell you what, while you're waiting for your body seals I'll grovel under mine and attempt to pull the arm back and see how much it force it takes..(or whether I heave myself completely under the beast trying ;D)
Volkenstein
dfrommi,
So, knit & macrame. Here I am post visiting the House of Pain (the shed) ;D.
Couldn't do a thing to Klaus, so I bolted up my clutch/T-O-B/carrier plate assembly and slipped it onto the spare trans (from which it came) and whacked on the clutch arm and tightened the pinch bolt up.
As per your video, using my thumb and index finger the arm wasn't going anywhere apart from feeling the spring.
To get it to move I had to grab the back of the trans with my left hand and use the palm of my right against the clutch arm with shoulder and hips into it. It moved then, and I could definitely feel I was pushing against spring tension. And yes, a fair old heave required, and this against a clutch setup which has seen 102,000 miles.
You have to remember you have a sizeable vacuum reservoir that releases all that stored vacuum down to the servo when the gearstick is moved. With the engine off after a run, it still equates to a couple of shifts using that stored vacuum. As I also said before, the vacuum is acting on a wide surface area, not just the 11.2mm ID of your spigot!
Set it all back to as I've described and you'll be motorvating correctly.
To help Mike with the electricals, you see that switch up on the trans at the nosecone on the (LHD) drivers side in your second pic? Is that the one with funky wiring?
Enjoy
Volkenstein
Hi Sean and others,
If You suck the vacuum hose to the clutch servo
it will move the clutch arm...
I could never move it from under the car Sean,
so You must be stronger than Me... lol :D :D
keep up the good work..
Lee
http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug
okay i loosed up the bolt on the clutch arm to let the servo come back to an at rest position and it just went to the position as if it were being vacuumed. does anyone have a picture of what it should look like ready to be installed? actually i did the measuring wrong :-X. i tightened up the clutch arm then measured everything. so out comes the trans again and print your directions and back in it goes today with the engine ! wish me luck
::edit::
wow took me a whole 10 minutes to take the trans out my self. but here is a couple pictures of the new clutch arm settings.
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0053.jpg
and the clutch play.
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0054.jpg
to better explain the "at rest position" if you take and pull the servo arm all the way out as far as it will go and lightly let go until it pops back in from the rubber. I'm guessing that is the at rest position
Dfrommi,
I'll clarify "at rest" as I use it.
With everything disconnected, "at rest" is how the servo arm sits when the bladder is in it's normal shape. I don't pull the servo arm out and release, I push the arm in and let it spring back with some small assisstance.
With everything connected, "at rest" is where the servo arm/clutch arm sits when there is no vacuum present.
Well, I hope in your re-adjustment you made sure the starting point was the servo arm/clutch arm TOTALLY disconnected from each other, and then the pinch bolt undone and the clutch arm pulled off. Then go with my stuff.....
The positioning of everything in your first photo looks pretty good. When I bolted my clucth arm back up, the main part of the arm was pretty parallel with bellhousing rim.
Could you take a side-on shot along the face of the servo bracket?
What's going on with that bolt head connecting the servo arm to the clutch arm?? With the pin and bushes there is no slop in that connection, how's your connection on that front?
But please check everything again...wouldn't pay to have to remove the engine as well as the box next time.....
Regards
Volkenstein
heres a side shot of the servo http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0056.jpg
the bolt head is actually a bolt and nut to replace the pin and cotter pin and original bushes for now. when trying to get the arm off originally with out taking out the engine not even beating it with a hammer could get the pin out of the plastic bushings so i melted them out. i just replaced it for now with some plastic bushing from the local hardware store and a nut and a bolt. i took and tapped the threads with something pointy on the bottom of the nut and bolt to lock it in place so it can be slightly loose with out coming undone.
dfrommi,
Looking pretty good from that angle. If that's where it sits "at rest" and your measurements check out, then I'd reckon you are good to go.
Is that shot before or after you'd printed my post and adjusted it all again?
Not knowing what your schedule is, mine is hectic the couple of days so you may not get speedy answers out of me....I'll squeeze in some time to look at Klaus and the Spare's servo/arm positions.. ;)
Regards
Volkenstein
it was after i printed the instructions out. right after getting the trans it i thought it was going to rain but hailed! with almost like tornado speed like winds. it had my maple tree in our back yard side ways and busted out a few screens in our windows. glad it wasn't too big of hail. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/07/IMAG0064.jpg?t=1183743008
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/07/IMAG0060.jpg?t=1183743150
dfrommi,
In this first shot, the servo arm is retracted, the splined clutch shaft has been rotated clockwise and then the clutch arm slipped just on, and rotated to 35mm centre to centre between the servo arm eyelet and clutch arm. I pushed the clutch arm onto the shaft all the way.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e210/ctefeh/VWsemiautobox/TransServo1.jpg)
So pull out comes the servo arm, put the bushings into the clutch arm then slipped the servo eyelet in there and dropped the pin in and here's a shot along the bellhousing/trans joint.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e210/ctefeh/VWsemiautobox/TransServo2.jpg)
Interestingly (for me anyway!) the scribed marks I made on the clutch arm/shaft aligned perfectly. You can just see it in the second photo.
For you, given this clutch has seen 102,000 miles, the first photo is what you want to set everything to. Where it sits after it's all joined up will be OK regardless.
Hail....damn...isn't it summer over there? What the hell, we've had snow in November here..
HTH
Volkenstein
yeah its almost mid summer. but thats Michigan for you. all seasons in one day. got the engine and trans in and now to put all the electrical where it goes. I've got all the electrical for underneath the car done and the generator. I'm not very good with these wiring diagrams but it will work out okay I'm sure. quick question whats that little box right under the ignition coil with 5 connectors on it?
dfrommi,
Can't help there as I've never seen a KG's wiring outside of a Bentley. Could be anything.
Cobey?
Paging Cobey!!
Nova?
Any other KG owners?
Volkenstein
yes!! success! got it started long enough to test it out and it shifted into 1! so it turns out that it was 1: a bad bladder in the servo 2: the clutch arm was skipping teeth on the clutch shaft
the splines are very fine on the clutch shaft...
so the bolt does all the work...
I always put a bolt right thru and a nut on the other side...
probably overkill....
Sean,
My two spare servos don't have the screw on the chromed strap...
the strap is crimped over both sides and doesn't come off...
I've sprayed a lot of armorall into them- both sides...
neither leak...
My clutch pressure plate has 8/89 stamped on it... Sachs..
and one of the servos has 1986 stamped on it..
so they have been replaced at some time...
Lee
http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug
Dfrommi,
Winners are grinners!! Good news indeed, and don't forget you can tailor the shift speed to as fast/slow as you want with the screw on top of the CV.
Lee,
QuoteMy two spare servos don't have the screw on the chromed strap...
the strap is crimped over both sides and doesn't come off...
Eh???.....VW or someone else got stingy!!! :o
They both work so not a problem..'89 & 86...wow..all my stuff needs carbon dating ;D
Regards
Sean
Hiya df,
OUTSTANDING! Major obstacle hurdled! The rest of the problems will look like minor bumps after this. You are on your way toward becoming the AutoStick expert for the Great Lakes region!
i took it for a test drive today :D :D :D man i really love this thing! i just wish i fit in it better ;D i cant put it in low gear with out my legs knocking it out of gear lol and my foot kinda hits the brake and gas at the same time. after a few adjustments on the control valve it was shifting awesome. just wondering are you suposed to let go of the gas in between shifts? and at what points is it good to shift? the rpms didnt really seem to change much at all.i think i maybe got it up to around 40 mph just going down my street. have to wait to get the plates and tags to drive it legally on the city streets heres of a movie of her first flight. http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/?action=view¤t=fa894cce.flv
sorry for the helicopter noise i don't know whats wrong with the camera i guess its just getting old
Hiya df,
Wooo-Hooo! There is no better feeling than rolling out "the project" for the first time.
A couple of driving tips.................
Yes, let up on the gas when you shift. You'll get the hang of that in short order.
Be sure to keep your hand off the shift lever knob when you are not shifting.
You can use the shift point indicators (the little red marks) on your speedometer for maximum shift points. The shift point indicators are keyed into the manual transmission (so disregard the shift point at 11 mph) but the rest work just fine.
Hi,
Don't forget you can use all the 3 forward gears...
the VW manuals used to state that Low gear was only to be used when parking
going up steep driveways etc..
but I find it good to accelerate out on the highway or from traffic lights...
its better [I find] to use Drive 1 or drive 2 when parking...
as you can really take off when using Low gear...
Your gearlever should only disengage the clutch if its pushed forwards or backwards..
Not sideways....
I have purposely knocked the gearlever with My knee to see if it would go out of gear,
and it never has...
I thought that front seat passengers may be a problem with the gear lever,
but I have had No problems...
I just remembered...
My Left knee hits the gearlever... as we have Right Hand Drive cars
and drive on the Left side of the road...
Maybe the lockout plate under the gearlever stops the gear lever from disengaging the clutch when You bump it on the Right Hand Side..
so, knocking it [on the LHS] with Your Right knee may work
differently ??
Lee
http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug
quick question: is the control valve supposed to be that noisy when you switch gears?
I don't think I've ever heard the control valve make a noise...
its just an electromagnetic solenoid which switches the vacuum
to the Clutch servo on/off..
If You are hearing a THUMP
that is the clutch servo making the noise...
Mine used to be very bad,
but now its acceptable...
Lee
http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug
Dfrommi,
A "Psshhhh" sound after you let go of the stick? Or as Lee suggests, "thump" when you change?
Regards
Sean
I've had pretty good luck freeing rusted parts with a product called "LPS 2". It's better than WD40.
It's at lpslabs.com. I sympathize with your servo problems, had them too.
its more of a psssh farting noise. i don't really find it annoying. its really unique.
dfrommi,
A "pssshh" is like a very quiet version of a truck's air brakes, or someone expels air quickly. A "squorrk" would indicate to me that you need to adjust your engagement speed a little.
A "squorrk" and a light "thump" of the clutch means you need to slow the engagement.
Take that with a grain of salt as I have only heard what my car does....the other A-S I've driven positively slammed the clutch with a "bang".
Regards
Volkenstein
okay so i need to bring the screw back in a little. when i first tried to shift gears it almost took 4 -5 seconds before it would let the clutch go so i brought it wayy out and started to bring it back in untill it felt like it was grabbing right. maybe another full turn will fix it
Hi,
the only time My control valve took that long ,to engage the clutch,
was when the small vacuum hose going from the carburetor to the control valve, came off...
Once i found it, I pushed it back on and away I went.
Not good when You have just pulled onto a busy Highway...
Lee - 68Autobug - Australia
http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug
dfrommi,
Okayyy, as Lee has suggested, check your CV hose from the carby and make sure there are no leaks. See the little knobule (yellow, between the filter and solenoid) in Lee's little picture? The start point for adjustment should be 2 1/2 threads visible.
1/4 turn at a time for adjustment from that starting point according to the Bentley.
If you're close to the initial setting anyway and it's still taking 4-5 seconds your brass spigot on the CV may be blocked. The drilling in it is very small. It's on there tight and you'll need to make sure you don't rip the CV's rubber mounts apart taking it off. Small aluminium washer under the spigot too.
HTH
Volkenstein
I'm still getting that qwerrrrr noise from the control valve. i have a movie and seemed to have fixed the camera so it dose not sound like a helicopter is above me any more. And you can clearly hear it when its switched into gear. I've tried to bring the screw back in but its still not like a slowly engaging clutch like its supposed to be. Like you would switch gears with a normal clutch. It sits in neutral then engages. let me know what you guys think the sound is. http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view¤t=IMAG0044.flv
btw i love driving this car. its just not fast enough for me! love how it handles and everything else. it feels real sporty. i know a lot can be done to these engines but i would rather keep this thing original as possible since its already that way.
Dfrommi,
:o ??? That's news for me! I have never heard that sort of a squark before....
Can you pinpoint it? Or feel the CV for which part the vacuum is vibrating in?
I gather all you have done is start the car, select a gear....you hadn't been for a drive beforehand?
Some Q's..when you do this, how long does it take to "engage" the gear?
Once you've taken off (nice exit off the lawn BTW) is it just as slow when you are going? Or only when you first take off?
Just on the shifting, all you do is slap it into gear then hand straight off the stick?
Lastly, what's your fully warmed idle speed set to and what distributor do you have?
I think this may be similar to BeenJaamin's noise (on TheSamba) he's trying to describe....
Regards
Sean
prior to that video is when we came back from the long drive of 30+ miles. i havent really checked the CV to pinpoint where its coming from because it drives just fine!. hell im not even sure its coming from the CV it just sounds like its in that direction. the gears shift all the same while driving as well and shift with ease. theres nothing wrong at all with the operation of the shifting etc just that strange noise. as for the distributor im not sure what it is and the idle speed we dont have a tach to test. after adjusting the timing on it we just set it at a speed we thought sounded right.
Hiya df,
Just my two cents worth.............
It sounds to me as if the noise is being made as the vacuum is being applied to the clutch servo. If that is so, then the sources for such a noise would likely be either the control valve or the clutch servo.
Quote from: volkenstein on 11 August 2007, 12:41
Dfrommi,
(nice exit off the lawn BTW)
haha i think he was flooring it too! and it couldn't even tear the grass thats why it got a laugh out of me.i know these engines can do more then that my dad had a super beetle when i was younger with some crazy ass engine in it. we could do 110-115 in it easy and could light up the tires in 2nd gear! but that isnt enough for me that why i like good old American power( the kind that tosses you back in your seat and keeps you there with 2 miles per gallon) and that why im working on this trans am with a Very well built 6.6 liter in it atm