Hello, I have a 73 AS beetle that I received for free (with blown engine). Got the engine rebuilt and reinstalled, but now it seems the clutch is slipping. The engine was siezed, so the torque converter had to be removed with the engine. Refilled it with ATF before installation, now i can feel it "thump" into gear, but when I get on the gas, it barely moves. RPM hit redline, but car will not pull out of its own tracks.
I'm going on the assumption that the rod for the vacuum servo to the clutch arm is misadjusted short. I'm going to extend it a little and reconnect to see if the servo is holding the clutch in slightly. Is there anything else that could cause clutch semi-engagement? Thanks, I've almost got this basket case going!
Hello and welcome to the forum. Could you answer a couple of questions for us. 1) do you smell the clutch burning when you rev the engine? 2) have you checked the atf level after running the engine the last time? 3) with the engine running and the atf fill cap removed can you see the atf returning to the tank through the line in the filler neck? 4) Is it a smooth "slip" or is there some rumbling or ;)grinding going on? That should narrow it down so we don't have to chase too many rabbit trails. :)
Hi
I suggest laying under the car
looking at the clutch servo arm
and get someone to start the engine
hand brake and foot on brakes
and to move the gearshifter to see if the servo arm IS moving..
and that ALL the vacuum hoses are hooked up correctly and
the small hose that goes to the carby is connected..
although You said it thumped into gear
so that hose sounds like its connected
check to see if the clutch servo arm is loose??
or if it has been taken off
What I have done with both gearboxes is -
take the servo and bracket off the gearbox
[take the adjuster off]
and loosen the clutch arm bolt on the top
and push the clutch arm forward as far as it will go
then hold it there and do up the locking bolt...
now lengthen the servo adjuster [leave the locknut loose]
and put the servo back together..
check for the gears again...
I kept adjusting until reverse would still crunch
if I pushed it thru fast..
then adjusted the servo adjuster slightly - check
and tighten the locknut...
best of luck
LEE
http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug
Sorry so long with no response, had to leave town for a couple weeks for a funeral.
Anyway, I've been working on the car some more, and after replacing the entire fuel system including gas tank and carb, I got the engine started again. Couldn't figure out why It would start one day and not the next. All the gas was leaking out overnight.
As far as the clutch slipping issue, this should be the last hill to climb before she's on the road again for the first time since '03.
The clutch seems to slip smoothly, with no grinding sounds or anything. No smoke or smell of burning clutch, but I haven't done it for long. The car will actually move a little, but it goes VERY slowly compared to engine RPM.
I have removed and disassembled/reassembled the clutch servo for cleaning. This car sat in a field in Arkansas for 3 years with a blown motor, and there were mud wasp nests all in it. You don't want to know what the rear brakes looked like.
How about adjusting the clutch servo rod? I had it off when the servo was off, and screwed it all the way in till it stopped. I have unscrewed it at least 8 turns to see if the clutch would grip at full release, doesn't seem to have affected anything. Going to unscrew it 4-6 more turns and see what happens. I know this will affect clutch throw, but are the adjustments/threads that fine?
If this doesn't affect the issue, I'm going to replace the ATF pump on the engine. I have a spare on hand, from the original motor, that is known good. Broke the rear housing of the oil pump removing it (protip: don't remove oil pump housing from case with a claw hammer) and had to find another one. Case and gears appeared good, gears are the same size.
I did not touch the arm that works the clutch on the transmission side that attaches to the splined shaft.
Thanks guys, you've been a bunch of help already!
edit: Couldn't get accurate ATF level before, because bumper and mount were missing and tank was just hanging in fenderwell. Got some T-Bar bumpers and secured ATF tank, ATF levels now exactly half way between marks on dipstick. Will check to see if ATF is flowing in tank.
Ok, I got in to readjust the rod on the clutch server, loosened it until reverse crunched, then tightened 1 turn. Still slips. It feels like the torque converter is slipping. How is the ATF level controlled in the TC? Only by the ATF pump on the engine? That's where i'm starting to think the problem lies. Thanks guys!
Hiya lab,
Quote from: labrat on 18 July 2008, 02:26 ......The clutch seems to slip smoothly, with no grinding sounds or anything. No smoke or smell of burning clutch, but I haven't done it for long. The car will actually move a little, but it goes VERY slowly compared to engine RPM........
This is a classic symptom of low ATF. And it could well indicate that you have a problem with the ATF half of your oil/ATF pump IF the ATF level is OK. It might also indicate that you have a problem with the routing or connections of your ATF supply hosing. In any event, it sounds as if your torque converter is not getting enough ATF to effect an efficient transfer of power from the engine to the transmission.
Labrat,
I'll add a few things to what Mike has said.
Your TC is supplied by ATF via your pump at fair rate of knots (Max 52 psi) but because it is a closed circuit, if air has gotten in there it will take a while to bleed out.
That being said and the fact it sat outside for a fair while would make me want to check the ATF supply and return pipes/hoses for blockages before turning to the TC itself.
Visually check your ATF pump feed hose/pipe and make sure oil is fairly gushing out when you disconnect it. Next is to get the ATF pump exit pipe off (a real PITA) and check it. I would then move to the feed hose from the breastplate tin to the trans and make sure that is all clear. Then the thick trans to ATF reservoir hose. You may want to grab some clear plastic hose to slip on the end of that and run it into a bucket. Start the car and make sure your getting a really good stream through that hose.
That is about all you can do apart from the stall speed test which will clue you in whether or not your TC is toast. Got a tacho? Ram the brake pedal through the firewall, start the car, put it into R2 gear and floor the accelerator. The engine should only get to around 2-2250 rpm. If it doesn't (revs way past 2500), you are more than likely in the market for a TC. BTW, do that once and quickly as it heats the ATF ferociously.
HTH
Volkenstein
well, You can get it into gear OK
all gears??
what if the small vacuum hose is blocked??
I know if that hose comes off
it takes a long time for the clutch to engage...
so what if its blocked??
also make sure you don't have ATF in the engine oil...
two seals in the dual pump keep them apart...
28 PSI max engine oil pressure - engine side
ATF max pressure is 52.5 PSI - other side
cheers
LEE
Bled out the lines all the way to the trans, and topped with fluid. Then I put it in Low, and revved the engine slightly. about 1800 rpm. Torque converter slowly filled (you could feel it, like putting an auto in Drive in slow motion) and air bled out. Now running and driving like a champ. Thanks guys!
Hiya Lab,
I always like happy endings!
Thanks for updating us - it is nice to know how things turn out.
Great Work
and as Mike said " A good ending"
Welcome to the World of driving an Autostick beetle
Lee
i have a 68 ghia AS and i am experiencing the same issues. i really need a diagram to ensure that i have all of the lines attached correctly. it seems that the 2 in the engine bay have different size connectors to prevent a mix up so i am sure that they are right. but i have no fluid in any lines it seems. it all worked great before my mechanic R/R the engine for a seal. when i disconnect the braided from what appears to be the bottom of the reservoir nothing comes out. is that typical? is there some type of check valve? otherwise, what else can i do to get fluid a moving?
Quote from: scottsain on 22 July 2010, 00:46
i have a 68 ghia AS and i am experiencing the same issues. i really need a diagram to ensure that i have all of the lines attached correctly. it seems that the 2 in the engine bay have different size connectors to prevent a mix up so i am sure that they are right. but i have no fluid in any lines it seems. it all worked great before my mechanic R/R the engine for a seal. when i disconnect the braided from what appears to be the bottom of the reservoir nothing comes out. is that typical? is there some type of check valve? otherwise, what else can i do to get fluid a moving?
Hi
when the fitting is loosened on the bottom of the ATF Tank... ATF Fluid should pour out...
the tank should roughly be at least half full.... of Automatic Transmission fluid...
Taking the engine out of a semi automatic VW means allowing the ATF to drain away...
the ATF in the torque converter will pour out when the engine is removed...
The Torque converter oil seal should have been renewed also...
if the front engine oil seal was replaced.... or maybe both...??
the torque converter holds 7.5 pints of ATF .. or 3.6 liters...
it seems the mechanic didn't refill the ATF tank????
cheers
LEE
the tank appears to be full. i will go check and see if there is some blockage.
Hiya Scott,
Welcome!
About the issue at hand...........am I understanding this correctly?..................You definitely have ATF in your reservoir tank but when you "pull the plug" nothing comes out? Is that what's happening?
Quote from: Bookwus on 22 July 2010, 05:09
Hiya Scott,
Welcome!
About the issue at hand...........am I understanding this correctly?..................You definitely have ATF in your reservoir tank but when you "pull the plug" nothing comes out? Is that what's happening?
YIKES...
LEE
Quote from: Bookwus on 22 July 2010, 05:09
Hiya Scott,
Welcome!
About the issue at hand...........am I understanding this correctly?..................You definitely have ATF in your reservoir tank but when you "pull the plug" nothing comes out? Is that what's happening?
yes it is. so late late last night i went down to the garage to try and figure it out. i pulled the lines and found no fluid still. so i pulled the tank reservoir line again to check it. nothing coming out. plenty of fluid in the tank. i grabbed a small screwdriver to see if something had clogged the line. i put it into the small black rubber fitting on the end of the hose and it stopped. then the light came on. i grabbed a pair of needle nose and pulled out the rubber vacuum cap that my mechanic had put into the end of the line to keep it from leaking while the engine was out. fluid flowed out. i reattached the line and fired up the engine and waiting until i could see fluid coming back from the return line. i jumped in and it worked flawlessly.
however, after driving i pulled back in the garage. the engine oil light had come on before i got home. i coasted into the garage and refilled the engine. i started it up and almost immediately it blew all of the oil out of the flywheel side. something that had to be pressurized. not sure if the oil cooler seals would do that or if my mechanic may have left the cooler loose. i will pull it out next week to identify.
Hiya Scott,
Quote from: scottsain on 22 July 2010, 15:40 .........after driving i pulled back in the garage. the engine oil light had come on before i got home. i coasted into the garage and refilled the engine. i started it up and almost immediately it blew all of the oil out of the flywheel side. something that had to be pressurized. not sure if the oil cooler seals would do that or if my mechanic may have left the cooler loose. i will pull it out next week to identify.
A few more details on the oil leak please. Can you tell us from where the oil appears to be coming? Is the oil on the ground, in the engine compartment? Note: there is no flywheel on an AS car. But I'm assuming that you are saying the oil is coming from the bellhousing/engine connection area. As I mentioned before, more details will help. Pictures are even better.
I think that the only thing that would get oil out of the crankcase that fast would be a popped oil gallery plug. You could probably drive around for a bit with a blown out mainseal and still have some oil. Bad oil cooler seals could empty the sump but you would likely notice the oil in and around the engine compartment, bottom tin, etc. rather than forward by the bellhousing.
Uh-oh...........just thought of another possibility. If your mechanic installed the cam plug without reversing it (as you need to do with an AutoStick specific engine) then your flexplate may have ground a hole through the cam plug. Since the mechanic left the plug in the ATF reservoir, the cam plug may be a real possibility.
we did not split the case which i am assuming you would have to do to replace the cam plug. but that doesn't mean that the the PO couldn't have done it.
it is leaking from the bell housing side for sure. i did feel around behind the fan shroud and yes it is a little oily there. we will pull the engine next week to investigate.