Hey there,
I'm trying to figure out the wiring on my 73 super and wanted pick your brains. The wiring diagram in the Bentley shows a black and a red wire hooked up to the control valve. So far I think I have the black wire found. But I'm coming up short on the red. I've seen a few pictures on line that have a cream looking wire hooked up. Any ideas?
Also when I do narrow it down. Does it matter which post they are connected to? I seem to remember reading that it doesn't.
I did find a picture of the valve when I first got the bug and it has a brown wire and a white/black stripe hooked up.
Ps. Just to make sure I'm referring to the correct part, the control valve is the beast mounted inside the engine bay(left hand side) with the vacuum lines and two wires?
Hiya Dave,
I'll try answering in reverse order..................
Yep, you aced the terminology/semantics quiz for this semester. That gizmo mounted up on the left firewall with all the hoses and a couple of wires is, indeed, the control valve.
I have seen only two colors of wires (I'm talking original VW wiring here, not something cobbled together by a PO) hooked to a control valve: tan and black.
The control valve won't mind which wire goes to which post on its solenoid. The solenoid won't care either.
I checked the Bentley for wire colors and bygawd man, you are absolutely correct. I have never seen a red lead to the control valve, but it surely does appear that way in the Bentley supplementary diagram for the 73 AutoStick. But the bottom line here is this............if you trace the wire back from the gearshift selector lever and it winds up at the control valve, you are good to go whether it's red, tan, or purple with yellow polka dots.
Here's my hookup to the control valve...........
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/Bookwus1/Bug/IMG_0782.jpg)
As Mike says , one wire goes to the bottom of the gearshifter
and the other wire goes to power - usually the coil + terminal..
and Yes, it doesn't matter which way the wires go...
[I looked in lots of manuals to check on that a few years ago... ]
[hoping it would fix the problem i had - with the clutch servo.. lol]
the gearboxes are very strong - plus a clutch that is either IN or Out -
plus the torque converter to smooth things out ...= very low wear
early this year I changed My fan housing from a doghouse oil cooler back to the original
fan housing - the electronic ignition box is behind the fan housing and i have the oil cooler
mounted next to the tappet cover on the RHS.. I have just bought a non VW oil cooler
which I'm thinking of mounting over the fan at the rear of the housing..
I also have a spin on oil filter and thermostat to add to the oil lines...
cheers
LEE
Thanks guys,
I do have an extra black wire coming from the coil. I wasn't sure if that was the hot wire I was looking for though. (If that's the one, it needs to come off of the positive side?)
As far as the other wire. It sounds like I need to pull the shift stick in the cabin to find out what color it is.
Or could you see it from under the car?
On a side note, I've decided to replace the large vacuum lines connected to the control valve. As previously mentioned I went to www.belmetric.com/html/catalog26.htm and ordered 2 meters of the RH12W. The guy that answered was very friendly and knew exactly what I was looking for. He also mentioned that is the OEM part for this application.
Hiya Dave,
The black wire leading to the control valve does come from the positive side of the coil. It also has an in-line 8 amp fuse.
About the wire leading from the gearshift lever back to the control valve.............
Well, VW is not going to make this easy for you. And heaven knows what any PO might have done. But here's the general idea.......
The line leading back from the shift lever should be blue (I don't think VW changed that color, but I could be wrong about that) and lead to a connector under the rear seat. After the connector, the line should be black and lead back to the nuetral safety switch. From the NSS the line should lead to the control valve and now be tan.
Now the colors are from my own experince and don't agree with yours, but the track of the line is the important thing here.
Hiya Dave,
Quote from: hercdriver on 22 December 2008, 16:19
On a side note, I've decided to replace the large vacuum lines connected to the control valve. As previously mentioned I went to www.belmetric.com/html/catalog26.htm and ordered 2 meters of the RH12W. The guy that answered was very friendly and knew exactly what I was looking for. He also mentioned that is the OEM part for this application.
Hmmmmm........looks like I need to make a phone call later this morning!
Ok, I think I have enough information to be dangerous. It's just going to be trial and error from here on out. Many of the wires are disconnected under the rear seat ( which tells me the last guy had some kind of problem he couldn't figure out).
I did see the second in line fuse in a picture of your engine bay Mike. Presently I only have one in line fuse hanging off of the coil. I assumed it was for the rear lights. I'm heading out the local vw shop today and will check to see if he has any in stock.
I'll post some pictures in a little bit. It's pretty cold in the garage right now.
Quote from: Bookwus on 22 December 2008, 16:20
After the connector, the line should be black and lead back to the nuetral safety switch. From the NSS the line should lead to the control valve and now be tan.
I see the neutral safety switch on the diagram, but where in the car did VW mount it? What does it look like?
Hiya Dave,
Welcome to my own personal corner of AutoStick Hell.
For some reason I have confused these switches in the past, but I'm gonna make a stab at redeeming myself here. Check out this picture of an AutoStick tranny.................
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/Bookwus1/Bug/IMG_0923.jpg)
Looking at the right side of the transmission (as it is installed in the car) you'll see two switches just forward of the axle plate. The one nearest to the axle plate is the back-up light switch. Over on the other side of the transmission, located on the nosecone you can just see the nuetral safety switch.
Here's a close-up of that guy.............
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/Bookwus1/Bug/IMG_0825.jpg)
Ok I think I got it. The pictures helped quite a bit.
First. I wired a black wire from the positive side of the coil and used an in line fuse with an 8 amp fuse to the control valve.
Second. I found the neutral safety switch. As you can see from the photo below it has a rubber boot on it. I was afraid to mess with it in the cold and possibly tear the boot. I did follow it through the fire wall. The wire bundle split in two but the one bundle has a brown wire that doesn't have a home. It shares the same bundle with what I believe are the wires for the rear lights.
I still have a couple of loose wires. If anyone recognizes them, please speak up.
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/507777.jpg)
the control valve
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/507774.jpg)
the NSS
Hiya Dave,
Quote from: hercdriver on 22 December 2008, 22:48 ........The wire bundle split in two but the one bundle has a brown wire that doesn't have a home. It shares the same bundle with what I believe are the wires for the rear lights.
In the Volkswagen scheme of wiring, a brown wire is ALWAYS a ground wire. So.......if that little beast is hooked into the closest available ground spade, you are good to go.
QuoteI still have a couple of loose wires. If anyone recognizes them, please speak up.
I'm having a hard time telling exactly what color they are from the picture. Possible to take a closer snap or describe the wires' colors? Right off the bat, I do NOT have any such wires in my wiring harness. And that makes me think that these loose wires may well be part of your onboard VW Diagnostic system, perhaps originally hooked up to the service plug which is just visible at the top of your picture?
Hmmm.....I'll have to remember this thread. I have to redo all that wiring on my 68. Currently, it is wired with audio speaker wire ::) Ironically, it does seem to work ok. The PO sold me the car telling me that second gear (2), was shot and that he could never get it to work. Oddly, when I got it home and got it started, it went through all gears flawlessly. After I tuned it up, now it "jumps" into gear with a nice bounce. No grinding, just a delay and then "whump!" into gear.......any thoughts anyone? Kinda off, but kinda connected to this thread.. :)
Hiya 68,
The "thump" when shifting is a classic symptom of having the small vacuum hose from the control valve hooked up to the wrong vacuum port on the carburetor. Take a look at this picture of a 34PICT3 in an AutoStick set-up...........
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/Bookwus1/Bug/IMG_0783.jpg)
Do you see that the small vacuum hose is hooked into the vacuum port on the right rear of the carburetor? That is THE correct vacuum port for any carburetor in an AS application. Many folks are running their control vacuum hose to the left rear vacuum port (capped in the picture). Why do they do this? Because they do NOT have a right rear vacuum port. That's because the carburetor they are running was not designed or intended to be used in an AutoStick set-up - it's a generic replacement better meant and used on a manual application.
I would bet that's your situation. Check it out and let us know. There is an easy, cheap, and relatively pain-free method of fixing that particular problem.
Herc,
73's are fed power directly from the fusebox. The end of the circuit is the contact point in the gearstick. That said, rigging up feed from the coil is OK. Just find your other power feed and terminate it properly so it touches nothing. Fuse 11 by the way.
If you peel back the rubber cover on the neutral safety switch there *should* be a thick black/red, red & piggy back brown wires.
Trace both ends of the brown wires. One should wind it's way under the seat to a connector. Your gearstick wire plugs into that. The other side should find it's way to the CV Solenoid.
The red/black is from your ignition switch, and the red goes to your starter.
It does sound like a PO has slashed 'n' burned through your wiring. Buy or rig up a test light and find out which wire does/doesn't have power for the CV solenoid/gearstick circuit for starters.
I know that brown is earth in VW's but for the gearstick circuit, it is actually "live" until the contact point and gearstick touch, then the circuit completes firing the solenoid. ie (Coil "+" -> 8 Amp fuse -> Solenoid) then (solenoid "-" -> N.S.S. -> Under seat connector -> gearstick contact) for the way you have it rigged at the moment.
HTH
Volkenstein
I have had a small problem with selecting Drive 1 when driving fast in LOW gear..
it always crunches.... what it seems to be is the gearshifter base needs to be moved slightly
as the contacts aren't being closed properly when pushing the gearshifter forwards..
If I push the gearshifter slowly into Drive 1 from LOW it works correctly...
but a fast shift results in a small crunch...
so you may have the same problem... Maybe the control valve is still too slow at changing...
which I think may be the problem... I've never tried to fix it as I normally change from LOW into Drive 2..
LEE
PS: speaker wire is a bit small - but shouldn't stop it from working.. Lee
Volk,
I think I'm starting figure this out. Power starts out in the fuse box ( fuse #11) / coil, travels to the neutral saftey switch (NSS), to the control valve, and back to the contact in the stick shift. When the stick is depressed it finds a ground and completes the cicuit.
On a side note. The schematics never mention the NSS. Is it possible the NSS is the same thing as the starter cut out switch on the diagram?
Here's what I have under the left rear passenger seat.
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/508173.jpg)
Hiya Dave,
Quote from: hercdriver on 24 December 2008, 18:17 ......The schematics never mention the NSS. Is it possible the NSS is the same thing as the starter cut out switch on the diagram?.....
Same beast, different names.
Dave,
QuotePower starts out in the fuse box ( fuse #11) / coil, travels to the neutral saftey switch (NSS), to the control valve, and back to the contact in the stick shift. When the stick is depressed it finds a ground and completes the cicuit.
Not really. The NSS disrupts the starter circuit from ign switch to starter if not in neutral. The only relationship to the CV circuit is the fact VW chose to run the gearstick wire to the piggy back fitting on the NSS.
So...Fuse 11/Coil -> CV -> NSS piggyback -> Underseat connector -> Gearstick.
Unfortunately I own a '71 which uses pretty much the same schematic as '68 on and VW changed things in '72. U.S. cars had more electrical gizmos than we got too. My best advice is to forget the rat's nest and find the circuit you wish to work on and fix that. I can't bang on enough about using a test light or a polarity checking light. One step for man, a giant leap blah blah.
One thing....don't leave your ign on. Rip out/find a spare battery, make up some connectors and feed power that way, bypassing the coil.
Have an Orange Bentley? In the electricals, pages F and I are what you want for the CV circuit. F for diagram with pictures, I for actual colours for your '73 but it's a current track diagram.
HTH
Volkenstein
Now I know what a NSS = Neutral Start switch
and Yes it makes working out the system a lot harder
with the piggy back wire going to it....
took Me a long time to figure out the extra wire on the neutral start switch.... lol
check that the neutral start switch plug isn't loose...
that bugged Me for over a year.... lol
best of luck
LEE
PS: Only good thing is the answer is still there somewhere...
Lee,
Loose as in the wire was backing off or the NSS was backing out of the transmission?
Dave,
Both! Best to make sure the NSS is done up and that the wiring male/female connectors aren't loose.
Regards
Sean
I've never seen a loose switch..
but the plug looked like it was pushed on
but the connectors in the plug were just touching the terminals..
so it was itermittant for a long time..
because of the rubber protector around the plug I couldn't tell
whether it was on...
Lee