I know this has been answered before but i couldn't find the thread for it. I've recently bought myself a 1300 TP engine that i plan to use in my car, i plan to turn it into a 1500 SP so i can use the manifold i have and fit the dual oil pump and flex plate, are there any other bits that need fitting/swapping over (i.e. seals) or is there any reason why this couldn't be done?
No reason it can't be done...
although getting 1500 parts is now getting difficult.
better to make it a 1600 single port or
twin port by adding the vacuum tube to the inlet manifold..
new gaskets for the dual pumps are available - same as single pumps...
You could replace the dual seals in the pump - available from evw...
replace the o ring in the flexplate - [replaces the flywheel] any place that sells o rings..
and naturally replace the torque converter seal [must be changed when the torque converter is moved]
thats all i can think of at the moment...
Lee
I'm not sure whether a 1300 has the metal plug (freeze plug looking thing) behind the flywheel but if it does be sure that the flexplate clears that plug. On some engines the plug was reversed in the block so the flexplate would rotate freely. You will also need the autostick tin. Again, I am not qualified to answer whether the tin is interchangable between the 1300 and the 1500. Good luck with it! Oops, forgot that you will probably have to remove the bushing from the front of the crankshaft, It holds the trans input shaft on the manual trans and will prevent the torque converter from seating completely if I remember correctly.
Hiya green,
Quote from: greenghia on 27 December 2008, 02:53 ........I'm not sure whether a 1300 has the metal plug (freeze plug looking thing) behind the flywheel but if it does be sure that the flexplate clears that plug......
I'm no old hand with 1300s either (but I can't imagine that they'd be different in this respect) but when putting together and engine for an AutoStick I've taken the advice of pros and always reversed the cam plug. Doing that will insure the clearance between the flexplate and the plug.
Hi
You may have to drill a hole for the oil pipe top go thru if using the 1300 tinware...
and grind a bit of tinware if it doesn't fit ot rubs on the crankshaft pulley..
I've never changed a manual engine to an autostick or vice versa...
LEE
Quote from: Bookwus on 27 December 2008, 04:52
Hiya green,
Quote from: greenghia on 27 December 2008, 02:53 ........I'm not sure whether a 1300 has the metal plug (freeze plug looking thing) behind the flywheel but if it does be sure that the flexplate clears that plug......
I'm no old hand with 1300s either (but I can't imagine that they'd be different in this respect) but when putting together and engine for an AutoStick I've taken the advice of pros and always reversed the cam plug. Doing that will insure the clearance between the flexplate and the plug.
I've been told that this had to be reversed before but i wanted to make sure on here first, is it a simple job to do or am i looking at splitting the case?
Now this is guess work , but I'm presuming it is the dished type of welch plug...
they are normally used convexed and then when tapped with a hammer?? they expand and stay there
or the other type of welch plug which has a rim around the outer edge..
Maybe Mike can tell me if I'm correct
or if I don't know what I'm talking about and then I'll delete this post... lol
LEE
If the flexplate clears the plug then you are good to go so "if it ain't broke don't fix it" would apply. The only types of plugs I am familiar with are the ones with the ring(bump) around the outside and I can't imagine one being installed without the engine case being split. However you are dealing with a 1500 and I haven't worked on one of those in ages. Good luck though! On second thought, I think Lee is right about the smooth one. (we may both be deleting posts!lol)
Hiya Guys,
The case does have to be split to install the cam plug. Lee is correct in that the plug (at least for a 1600) does have a ridge or embossed edge running on its outside diameter. (By the way Lee, sorry but I'm unfamiliar with the term, "welch plug")
But.....................as green mentions, if you have clearance between the plug and the flexplate you are good to go. I reverse the plug just as a matter of routine when I have everything in pieces so that I do not have to be later concerned with the plug at all.
Chris,
I've been trolling other sites for info as I know this isn't as straight forward as it seems.
A 1300TP has the same case spigot size as a 1500SP/1600SP/1600TP. They generally use 10mm head studs. Measure them to be sure.
A 1300TP requires the top middle two studs to be changed to longer SP ones to fit the SP heads.
A 1300TP requires 1600TP P & C's and 1600TP heads to do a direct swap - no case stud changes needed.
A set of 1300TP heads does not fit a 1500/1600SP/1600TP set of barrells. You must machine them. (Big Deal!! You want SP...)
A 1300TP needs a doghouse shroud. It is also a dual relief case.
If it were me depending on what parts I had at my disposal....I'd go 1600TP. Only knowing you have a pump (which one? very critical!!) and manifold...I'd spring for the studs and go 1600SP. You would need to be on your game to find 1500 SP P&C's and the fact is that 1600 P&C's (even 1641!!!) are a dime a dozen by comparison.
Also be aware that the 1300TP could take a serious flogging. A brutally serious flogging. Much more than a stock 1600TP so caveat emptor on that engine. I'd measure every part on that 1300TP if I were you.
HTH
Volkenstein
The reason i want to go 1500 SP is because i already have all the bits to do so, i.e. heads (need the valves overhauling, pistons and cylinders). You're definitely right though as it doesn't sound as simple as i'd originally thought. What are the options on the pump then, if it helps the only description i can give you is that it was off my '68 engine, what are the differences?
Chris,
If you have all that you are almost right to go. Your 68's oil pump is for a small oil gallery/small gears/flat cam engine. You need to find a late model pump from a 1600TP. This is because the 1300TP cam is the dished type, the late TP pump has larger gears and has a reworked oil system compared with a 1500's.
Are you splitting the 1300 case? I was thinking you could use the 1500 cam/lifters, but I'm stuck over what mods you'd need to do to the pump....
Sounds like you need to find the longer 4 middle studs, probably in 10mm to fix up your case for all your 1500 gear then find a late A-S oil pump. It would be the minimum IMHO, but does anyone have any thoughts to add?.
HTH
Sean
So i'd be looking for this then?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130277062725&fromMakeTrack=true (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130277062725&fromMakeTrack=true)
Longer studs
Flipping the cam plug (if necessary)
Replace the TC seal
Replace the flexplate o-ring
Single port tinware (already have)
Doghouse Fan shroud (already have)
1500 SP B&P's and cylinder heads (already have)
Have i missed anything?
Chris,
That pump is the right one - "B" suffix on the part and the decsription has got it in a nutshell.
Hmmm...Check & reset crankshaft endplay is the only thing that springs to mind. You've got spare shims on the 1500. Which leads me to....replace the large flywheel/flexplate seal that is in the engine case. Cheap insurance.
HTH
Sean
Cheers, i've now bought that one and hopefully it'll get to me within the next couple of weeks. I'll need to get myself some tools for setting up the endplay then.
Hiya Chris,
Quote from: FlamingChris on 30 December 2008, 00:10 ........ I'll need to get myself some tools for setting up the endplay then.......
Take a look at this.................
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D7095
I've just bought myself a dial test indicator as i'd have to import that, it only cost me £14 delivered.
wow £14 bargin! were did you get it chris ?
Here's a couple of tools i made to check the end float and lock the engine up
when your doing that flexy plate nut up, there a bit rough but do the job ok
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r156/automaticsamba/HPIM0002.jpg)
cheers phil
Yeah I'm over in Suffolk, I got it off of ebay and looks pretty much like this one here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RDG-MAGNETIC-BASE-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-DTI-IMPERIAL_W0QQitemZ350146850181QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item350146850181&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1298%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318).