i recently upgraded my 74 super with these items, and now i am having issues. can someone help please?
Hiya 74,
Welcome to VWAR.
We just might be able to give you a hand with the Weber and the Pertronix. Mostly we deal with stock set-ups but we have some knowledgeable folks around who I'm sure can share some of their knowledge.
What seems to be the problems?
well, i was having some issues getting it to shift at all,but upon further inspection, i found a blown vacuum hose. now it shifts, but im getting some thump going into gear. i adjusted the servo and clutch free play before i found the hose, and now i just might have it over adjusted. this stuff is all new to me. i just bought the car a few months ago, and it was someone elses project. about 60% completed. any tips would be appreciated.
Hello, Uh ohh, Weber carb. You are probably going to have to find a spot to get a vacuum signal from above the throttle butterfly on that carb. That is where it comes from on the stock carbs and the control valve needs that signal to shift correctly. :'( If you are running off a port that draws vacuum from below the butterfly you will have too much vacuum and it is unlikely the control valve can be adjusted enough to compensate(shift smooth). Maybe someone here has run a weber and can tell you how or where they fixed it? I have heard, at least second hand, that someone has run dual carbs and found a way around the vacuum situation but I don't know who they are. Good Luck!
74Soup,
What flavour of Weber? What distributor is that Pertonix unit in?
SK has rejoined (Stenis to us longtime forumites) and he runs a Weber Progressive (32/36 DG or DF) and a 009. He successfully modified the Weber to actuate the control valve and runs (ran?) a home brew 009 set-up.
If you have a Weber Prog, PM him. On his last post he was chasing jetting info and I told him that subject was being discussed very recently on TheSamba.
If it's a centremount IDF....you have your work cutout for you!
HTH
Volkenstein
it is a 32/36 progressive. the pertronix is on the stock vac. advance distributor.
Hiya 74,
Centermount Webers have their own set of unique problems and these problems are not at all limited to AutoStick applications. There is usually a devil of a time making sure the Weber stays warm enough to function properly. In any event you most certainly do want to contact SK (Stenis) about his experience with a Weber. The information about tapping it for a vacuum source alone will be worth the effort. And you shouldn't have a problem reaching him. He just checked in with us not too long ago.
74Soup,
Found some jpgs, try:
http://www.kvamme.se/pub/VW/DSC00697-JPG-640x480.jpeg or http://www.kvamme.se/pub/VW/DSC00697.JPG
http://www.kvamme.se/pub/VW/DSC00699-JPG-640x480.jpeg or http://www.kvamme.se/pub/VW/DSC00699.JPG
http://www.kvamme.se/pub/VW/DSC00700-JPG-640x480.jpeg or http://www.kvamme.se/pub/VW/DSC00700.JPG
http://www.kvamme.se/pub/VW/DSC00711-JPG-640x480.jpeg or http://www.kvamme.se/pub/VW/DSC00711.JPG
http://www.kvamme.se/pub/VW/DSC00714-JPG-640x480.jpeg or http://www.kvamme.se/pub/VW/DSC00714.JPG
I'll try look for some more details.
/S
exactly what i needed to see. what size drillbits did you use?
Don't remember, I can try to measure on the bug tomorrow. The pin in one of the pictures fits the bore loosely, and is a standard mig welding wire.
/S
im not sure whats up here but this is where my vacuum line is already going to. are you saying that i just need to drill the hole out bigger? or did your carb come with no vac. hole there at all? also is it ok to T into that line for distributor vacuum?
Sorry, I've not been in the garage today to measure the new vacuum port. But let me comment on the pic's:
DSC00697.JPG Pull the existing brass sleeve out of the carb housing. Be careful not to put too much pressure on the pliars.
DSC00699.JPG With the sleeve out you can see that the vacuum port is not simply a straight-thru bore.
DSC00700.JPG Make it straight-thru. I think its 1.5 mm, but could also be 2mm. I'll check asap.
The idea here is to modify the original vacuum port for the distributor, to be used as vac port for the clutch valve.
The port didn't work very well as distributor vac feed anyway.
No, you cannot use a "T". The vacuum operation for distributor and clutch valve are not compatible. The clutch valve wants no vacuum at idle, and full vacuum at throttle. The distributor wants it the other way, at least the single vac feed type distributor.
So, I am using the dreaded 009 (no vacuum advance), and it works quite good. Some small hesitation sometimes, but no big deal.
been a little busy lately, but i wanted to thank you for helping me out everything is now running smooth as butter. now i am having alternator issues, but carb and ignition seem to be worked out. i am so glad i found this site, as i have worked out a few "bugs" from reading old posts. keep up the good work auto owners.
Quote from: sk on 21 February 2009, 22:16
Sorry, I've not been in the garage today to measure the new vacuum port. But let me comment on the pic's:
DSC00697.JPG Pull the existing brass sleeve out of the carb housing. Be careful not to put too much pressure on the pliars.
DSC00699.JPG With the sleeve out you can see that the vacuum port is not simply a straight-thru bore.
DSC00700.JPG Make it straight-thru. I think its 1.5 mm, but could also be 2mm. I'll check asap.
The idea here is to modify the original vacuum port for the distributor, to be used as vac port for the clutch valve.
The port didn't work very well as distributor vac feed anyway.
No, you cannot use a "T". The vacuum operation for distributor and clutch valve are not compatible. The clutch valve wants no vacuum at idle, and full vacuum at throttle. The distributor wants it the other way, at least the single vac feed type distributor.
So, I am using the dreaded 009 (no vacuum advance), and it works quite good. Some small hesitation sometimes, but no big deal.
neat stuff there, but i always use the svda only, so i wouldn't want to kill my dizzy advance.
i have a dfev and dgev, (also 30pict3, 30/31), but right now i'm using the dgev, so i'll follow your pictures, thanks, but probably find a different place to drill
That's what I want to do. Run a Weber Progressive. Since my Bug has an EGR valve, is there a spot on the carburetor where I can tap a vacuum line for the EGR?
Hello all!
I'm not sure I can help out with the progressive setup, but...I can give a pointer or 2 if you still need it. I have A 1969 A/S bug with dual KADRONS. I had to do some mods to get the blasted thing to shift. Two of the things I had to do were relocate the ATF behind the back seat on the right, and relocate the CV to just above the heater pipe car inlet on the left side under the firewall. I had my fair share of bad word tossing while setting up the carbs as well. I had to drill into the side of one of my carbs to get the correct control valve shift signal. Just be careful when drilling if you haven't done it yet, carbs can be expensive if you fubar it! I can post a pic or 2 of my setup if anyone would like.
Good luck!
-Evan
Pix are great!! Don't think, just do it! On the plus side, it's one less carb set-up to guesstimate with. From your description the ATF filler cap etc interferes with the KADS? Food for thought for sure.
Regards
Sean
Quote from: volkenstein on 12 July 2009, 13:44
Pix are great!! Don't think, just do it! On the plus side, it's one less carb set-up to guesstimate with. From your description the ATF filler cap etc interferes with the KADS? Food for thought for sure.
Regards
Sean
Hey there!
To answer your question Sean, yes, the carbs interfere with the ATF cap and most of the filler neck. Also, the CV interferes with the left side carb. Both will have to moved to clear KADRONS. I am 99.9% sure the same goes for dual WEBERS as well. ANYWAY.....Here are pics of not just the engine but, what I nicknamed the Spotted A.S.S. (stands for: paint
Spotted Automatic
Stick
Shift). My 1969 A/S:
Crappy looking, but a work in progress:
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo1/singlcab61/Picture001-2.jpg)
Ridded the bug of the ugly '68-later black foam dash cover and added gauges:
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo1/singlcab61/Picture002-2.jpg)
I made sure to install an ATF temp gauge just because. I had a radiator repair shop boil out the ATF tank and weld in an 1/8" pipe bung into the bottom of the tank for the temp sensor (not visible in pic):
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo1/singlcab61/Picture003-1.jpg)
The complete 1641cc engine:
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo1/singlcab61/Picture004-1.jpg)
Right side, notice no ATF tank. You can probably see the ATF tank to carb clearance issue:
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo1/singlcab61/Picture005-1.jpg)
Left side, notice no CV and a right angle 1/2'' heater hose end from the vacuum tank. I only used the 90degree part of the heater hose, it is connected to -8AN PUSHLOK hose. (PUSHLOK hose is just as strong as the steel reinforced braided hose needed for the CV).
Also note the small vacuum line placement for the CV shift reference. (Not visible in the pic: Got the CV manifold vacuum from TEE'ing off the manifold equalizer hose and routed it out the back engine tin. I opened up the equalizer hose to the required 12mm for sufficient clutch servo vacuum) You can also probably see the CV to carb clearance issue:
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo1/singlcab61/Picture006-1.jpg)
New home for the CV (it is hard to see, but it is there). Shot taken as if you were to rest your head against the CYL. 3&4 valve cover and looked toward the front of the car. (You can see the left rear shock on the far left of the pic if that helps orient the picture better.) CV is on the bottom of the firewall, just above the cabin heater inlet hose on the LR of the vehicle, (the factory CV mounting plate is attached to the 3 shiny nylock nuts):
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo1/singlcab61/Picture007-1.jpg)
New home for the ATF tank. Behind the rear seat on the right side of the car. The Steel braided AN line is the new pump supply line from the bottom of the ATF tank. I routed it straight down and out to on top of the right side of the tranny. I then routed it down and through the back of the CYL 1&2 side bottom engine tin (the one the heater box screws to) under the pushrod tubes to connect to the A/S pump. The return hose had to be lengthened approximately 8" to reach the ATF tank inside the car:
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo1/singlcab61/Picture008-1.jpg)
The new inlet to the A/S pump. This is where I said the supply line was routed. The blue thing on the far right side of the pic (hard to see) is a cleanable oil filter I installed in the line to catch any oil pump damaging debris. The A/S pump is on the far left of the pic:
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo1/singlcab61/Picture009-1.jpg)
I was going for a clean look and used a lot of AN line and fittings. VERY EXPENSIVE but the result is well worth it! Also, it was the only way to adapt up to the factory ATF lines/fittings in a couple of instances.
Also...With the exception of the 90degree heater hose elbow, all CV and servo hose is the -8 AN PUSHLOK hose. To prevent the heater hose elbow from crushing under high vacuum, I stuffed a spring inside the hose. I got the spring from the local hardware store.
More pics than needed but I hope this helps out anyone trying to install a set of KADRONS to their A/S. It isn't very easy, but it can be done!
Hiya Evan,
Excellent pics. You did quite a bit of "creative engineering" to get everything together. Nice job!
This will be a great reference for anybody considering dualies in the future.
Thanks Mike! Anything to help out a A/S driver/tinkerer. The next thing is to get some pics of how to setup Dual WEBERS. I will eventually be upgrading the Spotted ASS to an 1835cc. Not sure if I want to run my set of Dual WEBER 40's or stay with the Dual KADRON's. Not for a few years though, or until I want more power. If I go with the WEBERs I will definitely post more pics and better how-to's as I am building the setup.
Evan,
Neat install! I see now why the ATF tank had to go, it would've jammed up the carb something fierce!
Who sells AN Pushlok? I love anodised bling ;D .
Plenty on the Commando, none on the A-S! :D
Ooo, 010 or 019? Either is damnably exxy and hard to find here..
Regards
Sean
Hiya Sean,
Quote from: volkenstein on 13 July 2009, 13:29
Plenty on the Commando, none on the A-S! :D
Commando? As in Norton Commando?
Quote from: volkenstein on 13 July 2009, 13:29
Evan,
Neat install! I see now why the ATF tank had to go, it would've jammed up the carb something fierce!
Who sells AN Pushlok? I love anodised bling ;D .
Plenty on the Commando, none on the A-S! :D
Ooo, 010 or 019? Either is damnably exxy and hard to find here..
Regards
Sean
I get my AN goodies from my speed shop the next city over. If the place sells AN, they can usually get PUSHLOK hose. Your in Aussie land, am I correct? You will have to find a speed shop most likely or go online to JEGS or SUMMIT to find AN.
As far as the Dizzy, its an 010. I had my body shop buddy repaint it for me. I also have a real 019 blue screamer that he repainted and matched the color perfectly.
THESAMBA is one of the only places to find these Dizzys but the sellers usually know what they have and want big $$$ for them. You can get lucky at a swap meet, that is where I found my 019 and 010.
Evan,
A-N hose, fittings etc we can get, I should've asked "who" makes PUSHLOK. Most of my bling is Earl's, although we have homegrown. I do get most of my larger stuff from JEGS/Summit as prices are stupid here.
Mike,
Yes, 850 Mk111. Although it is far from that now. 940 cc's of "Donk of Doom" with twin 34 Amal smoothbores and sewer pipe exhausts feeding a C/R gearbox. But it's another story. I'm only one W/E away from finishing room renovations and I've sworn that the beast will pull a Lazarus by 31/12/09 >:( :-[ :-X .
Regards
Sean
Hiya Sean,
Oh yeah!
I really liked those earlier 750s...........the Street Scrambler. I'm a sucker for up-pipes.
What do you do with 940 cc worth of power? You can hit Warp 3 with that, couldn't you?
Hi Mike,
Yes, those "S" models were truly horn!
I'm just praying it doesn't kick back, and then once it's going that it doesn't "grenade" :'( .
Too much time, money & emotion have gone into it....
Regards
Sean
Hey there,
The manufacturer of PUSHLOK hose is Aeroquip. JEGS has it available. Here is a link of what the stuff looks like. I used my downtown Speed Shop instead:
http://www.jdaent.com/push-loc-hose-aqp.html
Hope this helps out!
-Evan
Evan,
Thanks. I'll take a sticky at your link.
Regards
Sean
Bookwus: I saw your reply about the Weber getting warm enough to work properly. I noticed my '71 with a 34pic3 spit and farted all winter long. When the weather here warmed up (sw Oregon) the problem all but disappeared except for a few minutes when first started. Was my problem caused by a too cool carb?
Hiya John,
That certainly is a possibility.
I'm not that far away from you and Oregon weather is really not so extreme (OK, this last winter was a doozy!) to have that much affect on the carb/engine combination IF everything is in working order. So, that makes me think that you might have problems with blocked heat risers. Or possibly your choke.
You could very well be right. But the mech I take the car to and who rebuilt the engine warned me specifically about carb freezing and other cold weather problems. I will have a look at the heat risers.
Thanks for the advice!
Hiya John,
Quote from: johnr on 15 July 2009, 17:01 .......warned me specifically about carb freezing and other cold weather problems.......
Now that's really quite interesting. I wonder why he/she would have done that. I've lived in the Willamette Valley practically my entire life, and been into Volkswagens for 40 of those years, and this is the very first time I've ever heard of having to beware of carburetor icing in this area. And your climate, being heavily moderated by the Pacific is even more moderate than mine. Perhaps your mechanic is thinking about the relative humidity?
Even so, if the heater pipes are working correctly you should not be experiencing icing in any sort of conditions. That's what's making me think that there might be something amiss with the heat riser tubes or, possibly, the choke. The heat riser tubes, if blocked, are just a bear to clean out. Much easier to leave just as is, or easier to replace than to clean out.
I say check the choke. The choke is most likely closed too much. When it gets colder out, it will close more. A quick choke adjustment trick:
-Disconnect the choke power and tape it off so it won't short to something.
-Fully depress the accelerator once to set the fast idle and release the pedal.
-Start the engine cold (i.e...Early in the morning.)
-Loosen the 3 small screws on the right side top of the carb enough to release the adjustment. (Where the choke power plugs into.)
-Rotate the choke clockwise until the engine starts to smooth out.
-Tighten the 3 choke screws.
-Shut off the engine.
-Reconnect the choke power wire.
-Restart the engine and test drive it.
If you adjust your choke by the 3 little notches on the carb housing, there is a very good possibility the choke is not adjusted correctly. I have almost never had the choke correctly adjust and have it line up with one of the 3 notches. Even brand new chokes/carbs!
It is completely normal for the engine to fart and sputter when cold, the choke has not yet fully opened.
A good preset for the choke is:
-Again start out in the early morning.
-Remove the air cleaner
-Open and close the throttle arm.
-The choke should have rotated the ''stepper'' linkage clockwise.
-The throttle stopper screw should be resting on the second notch from the top of the ''stepper'' linkage.
-Adjust the choke until the throttle stop screw is set on this ''step''.
-Reinstall air cleaner.
This is all well and good if the rest of the carb is correctly adjusted to begin with.
The choke should be open roughly 1/4-1/3 of the way when cold. If it's closed too much, it will run like poo!
-Evan