VW Automatic Register

Autostickers,

I am planning to do a little overhaul of my engine starting the beginning of March (hopefully).  I have never removed an engine before, so I thought I would post a few questions.

• Is there a step by step procedure to follow?  What should I make sure to do, in what order?
• Is there anything special to do with a Ghia vs a bug?
• If I invite my vdub friends to help, do I have to make sure they understand the specifics of autosticks?
• What parts should I ABSOLUTELY replace if I'm doing this?
• Any other tips would be appreciated!

Thanks so much for your help,
Brad

Hiya Brad,

I'll take a first crack at this..................

1.  The Bentley manual has an 18 or twenty step procedure for removing the engine.  And they do include AutoStick specific steps.  It's easier to point you that way than to try to rewrite the whole procedure based on my experience.  However, let me say this.............the removal of an AutoStick engine is really not all that different than pulling a manual engine.  There are some extra wires, vacuum hoses, and ATF lines to cope with.  Along that line, make some provision for dripping ATF.  That stuff will continue to "bleed" almost as long as you have your engine out.  I cut golf tees and placed them in the hose ends and then taped them in place. 
If you should run into problems during the engine removal be sure to post up here with questions.

2.  Not that I'm aware.  But then again, I've not done a Ghia.

3.  Well, that sure wouldn't hurt but I don't think it's absolutely necessary.  It's more important in my opinion that they make very careful notes about EXACTLY how things come apart so that they can be reassembled correctly.  Be sure that YOU handle getting the flexplate off.  It's too easy to warp if done incorrectly.

4.  OK, in an engine overhaul I'd be gearing up to replace pistons and cylinders, regrind or replace the crankshaft, regrind or replace the camshaft and the lifters, have the heads checked out/worked over by a good machine shop, and, of course, all new engine seals.  With respect to AutoStick specific equipment, I can think only of two areas that I'd consider absolutely necessary........the oil/ATF pump should be disassembled and cleaned with new internal seals (there's two of 'em) installed.  And you'll need a new torque converter seal if you remove your torque converter.  And other parts needed will depend on the current condition of your engine and tranny.

5.  You might give some serious consideration to removing the clutch servo before you have your buddies over.  It's a tough little job to pull that thing with the tranny in place but it makes tranny removal quite a bit easier.  I'd also recommend that you remove as much "stuff" from the engine as is reasonably possible before you drop it.  Carburetor, distributor...........anything you can get out of the engine compartment will make life easier during the actual engine removal.  Also give some thought to pulling off your rear wheels and removing the engine through the wheel wells.  It will mean that you'll not have to get your car so high on blocks.

Mike,
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond!  I will have to study my bentley manual over and over.

I don't know if I'm the one to keep an eye on the flexplate.  I would be the one to warp it.

Hiya Brad,

Nah, you'll do fine with the flexplate.  Just have the other guys keep their mitts off it.  It really is tender and there is VERY little clearance between it and the crankcase when it is properly installed.  Bending or warping it is doom for sure.

Here's what you do.............  take a look at this close-up that I lifted from DaMunk (thanks DM!).......

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/Bookwus1/flexplate-1.jpg)

Notice that the holes the yellow arrows are pointing at are threaded?  Just thread in an M8 bolt (got it right that time, didn't I Sean?) in each of these two holes until it bottoms out on the crank face just behind the flexplate.  Now grab your 13mm wrench and tighten each bolt about a half turn in alternating steps.  The bolts will come bear against the crank face and push the flexplate off as neat as you could believe.  No warping, no bending, and no sweat!

Cool Mike!
Thanks...

Hey,  I just got a request from the wife to do some pricing on replacement engines.  Is there any out there that are better than others?  Any to avoid?

We are thinking of this because there is oil leaking out of the cylinder heads and we don't know how much we want to fiddle with a full overhaul.

Please forgive my lack of knowledge.

Brad,
       If your wife wants to know what a farmed out rebuild would cost...
     
Avoid in the US - yes. GEX.
Also don't get a REMTEC reco'd motor. There is nothing wrong with them per se, but they basically go max oversize on bearing etc so you'll never be able to re-use your case.

Search Feedback on TheSamba for builders.

Speaking of that, the only real difference in cases (manual vs A-S) is studs (oil (length) and bottom two trans mounts.

I would (hey it's your money, I'll feel free to spend it ;D) take your engine to a reputable builder and get them to do YOUR motor. No cores or exchange type deals.

Not too many shops do A-S motors but they can still build the basics. Dependant on oil pump fitted to yours you may be able to run a mild cam, or get your's reground. I think you can buy stock dished cams with gears, but that is it...stock. Aircooled.net has C30 Scat dished (with gear) but SCAT isn't making them anymore and it's like an Engle 110 so would be rough idling in a single carbed motor. What engine have you got? SP or TP?

Capacity is up to you. 1776 is a fairly standard upgrade. Try not to break 90Hp at the brochure.



1.25 cents....

Regards
Sean

Hiya Brad,

Yes............what Sean said.

I'll go a bit further..............be very suspicious of anybody who advertises their engines heavily.  That's not to say these guys are crooks or incompetents, but some of the better known crooks and incompetents prey on unknowing consumers via glitzy ads.  As Sean has mentioned, if at all possible contract for an engine with a local who has a good reputation.  This allows you to follow-up with him if there are problems.

Short of that, I'd consider buying a NEW Mexican long block before I'd ever buy from a rebuilder.  The Mexican long blocks have developed a good reputation.  And while they are set up for a manual tranny, changing them over to an AS set-up is not at all difficult.

In any event, before you buy or commit to buy (or whatever) post up here and ask.  That alone could save you some grief.

Guys,
       

QuoteI'd consider buying a NEW Mexican long block

. Forgot about those. Get one outright and swap over the A-S specifics, measure & set end-play, button up, drop it in, tune it up and away you go!

Another plus side is you still have an engine to rebuild in your spare time.....

Regards
Sean

Mike and Sean,
You guys are awesome!  I like the 'buy Mexican' option.  Then my wife and I can experiment with an engine to see what the heck is going on in there.

So, where should I look for them?  MAMW has them, right?
Should I get one without a 34PICT3 and SVDA?  I already purchased and installed SVDA, and modified the carb.
Is there a different way to set up the air filter?  Mine is the oil bath type.  Should it be different?
Any samba thread links to share?

Getting excited!

Hiya Brad,

A Mexican Longblock is a Mexican Longblock is a Mexican Longblock.  These longblock engines are produced by VWMexico.  They are exactly the same engine that went into Bugs when they were being produced in Mexico.  In other words, they are factory engines.  However, do be careful that what you buy is a NEW Mexican Longblock.  As was mentioned earlier in this thread not all advertisers are exactly "forthright" in describing their products for sale.  In other words "Caveat Emptor" definitely applies here.

Ok, now knowing that any real Mexican Longblock came from just one place, the VW factory, you shop mainly on the basis of price.  MidAmerican Motorworks has a terrible reputation for overpricing their products.  They are not one of the places I'd start looking.  Shop around and spend some time online.  Any of the more reputable outfits (Wolfsburg West, OEVeeDub, CBPerformance, AutoHausAZ, Airhead, German Supply, etc.) should be able to give a price on a Mexican Longblock.  Remember too that shipping will play an important part in your decision.  And an important point, the companies above will stand behind what they sell.

A longblock engine consists of case, crank, cam, cylinders and pistons, heads, pulley, fuel and oil pumps.  No tinware, generator/alternator, intake manifold, carburetor, distributor, or exhaust components.  Basically, a longblock is the "heart" of the engine.  So, you'll need to supply your own carburetor and distributor.

You definitely want to run your stock oil bath air filter.  The engine needs to be warmed up properly and a stock oil bath airfilter with the proper connections does that job.  Aftermarket air filters do not.

Hmmmmmmm.....I don't have a Samba link on my cuff for the Mexican Longblock, but I'll see if I can turn one.

Hiya Brad,

Try these....................

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=208830&highlight=mexican+longblock

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=199986&highlight=mexican+longblock

Thanks for the links.  But I think my research is headed in a different direction:

<take the dash out between you and tube>

http://www.you-tube.com/watch?v=IzG9hUc9IMg

http://www.you-tube.com/watch?v=P7ovmL3j_zk

I found this one at aircooled.net:

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=ESE0001&cartid=1222200998886015

Any comments?

Hiya Brad,

That's the genuine article.  And Aircooled.net is a stand-up company.  John Connolly, the owner, knows his stuff and sells only good merchandise.

That having been said, it seems to me that $2500 is a bit high for this longblock.  But take that statement with a grain of salt.  I have not been in the market for such an engine in a long while and I'm not really up on the going price these days.  I would suggest doing some more online "window shopping" just to compare prices. 

Here are some others.  I just don't know which one to pick.  Should I pull some numbers off of my engine and post so that you guys can suggest correctly?  I am clueless.

http://www.strictlyvw.com/top.html

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1415

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C15-1776LB

Am I going to request something special in order to get my 34PICT3 to work?

Hiya Brad,

I took a look at all three of the links you provided above.  There's good news there.  Also a bit of confusion.

The confusion:  What these folks have for sale is not the same in terms of comprability.  Strictly is selling some pretty wild performance and even most of their standard stuff is, well, a little more than just standard.  They do have low price on a 1600 rebuilt (rebuilt as in not new from Mexico) longblock at $795.  CIP1 is showing you a 1776 rebuilt longblock.  The 1776 uses bigger diameter pistons and cylinders than a 1600.  As a result you get more "pep in your step".  But again this is rebuilt and not new.  And it has a $2800 price tag to boot.

Good news:  And on the other hand, you have a brand new Mexican longblock from CBPerformance.  And at $1800 I'd say you have found a winner.  Shipping that beast to Chicago will be spendy (figure around $125 to $150),  But CBPerformance seems to be a good company to deal with.  I have done business with them and was favorably impressed with their products and their service.

Thanks Mike!

I don't know how anyone got anything figured out before this 'internet' thing came along!

So,
1.  Should I go up to a 1776 from CB (if they have one)?
2.  Will all of my other parts from my existing engine fit on either the 1600 or 1776?
3.  What additional bits will I definitely need?
4.  What bits must I clean/reuse/repaint for autostick?
5.  (Please forgive more ignorance) Do I need to request anything special in order to use my 34PICT3?

Thanks again!

Does anyone have any experience with mofoco.com?

http://www.mofoco.com/item/Street_Performance_Series_I_90_5mm_Bore_BE1776/291/c71

Hiya Brad,

We'll try these in order..................

1.  Purely your choice.  Some pros and cons...........

A 1776 can be built to a number of different specs.  In other words one 1776 is not necessarily another 1776.  Selection of heads and carburetion and camshafts can make major differences in how these engines will perform.  Most 1776s will fall into an AutoStick's comfort zone insofar as handling horsepower goes.  Any (well almost any) 1776 will be a rebuild; not new. You are wise to be thinking of CBP as a seller rather than CIP1.  CIP1 is a "sometimes they're OK; sometimes they're not" kinda company.  I (and others) have had trouble with CIP1 making good when a purchase has gone south.  You definitely want to avoid that when buying and engine if at all possible.

2.  Everything off your present engine will fit on a 1600 and probably on a 1776.  Notice above that I mentioned carburetion as a variable in building a 1776.  A 34PICT3 will run a 1776 but it will need some modifcation (new jetting).  All Mexican longblock 1600s are set up as dual ports so everything you have would just be a straight swap-over to the new engine.

3.  Any longblock you buy (new or used) will come set up for a manual transmission.  Typically, that will mean a standard oil pump and a flywheel.  You will have to change both of these items out to convert the engine to use with an AutoStick.  Not technically challenging at all and we can give you step-by-steps here for each procedure.  You will need a couple of special tools but they are not spendy and can be had for $10 or $12.

4.  Go back and look at that picture that Aircooled.net was running.  That is a longblock.  You will need to clean and paint everything else.  The cleaning is the "YUCK!" part of engine rebuilding, but it does need to be done and done well.  You new engine's life with respect to cooling will depend on the job you do in getting your old parts ready.  Honest Brad, the cleaning and painting stage of engine rebuilding is probably better than 50% of the entire job.

5.  As I mentioned before, if you plan to use your 34PICT3 atop a new 1776 you are looking at doing some rejetting.  That 1776 is going to be a bit thirstier than the 1600 the 34PICT was designed for.  Of course, if you go with a 1600 it will be a straight swap.

6.  MOFOCO:  I have heard quite a bit about MOFOCO.  Darby (Dr Darby over on TS) is a guy I have chatted with for going on 10 years now.  He really knows his stuff, both manual and AutoStick.  He says MOFOCO has always done a good and conscientious job by him.  On the other hand, I have heard from others who have had a few bones to pick with MOFOCO.  Me?  I really dunno; just hearsay. 

But this entry does make me think...............    Brad, you might want to contact Darby.  He could be of real help in putting your project together.  Nothing like having hands-on help. 

   

Awesome Mike.
Thanks so much for taking the time to help out.
I sent a pm to Darby.  Waiting to hear back.

first post!  Hey guys.

Best of luck Brad on the engine search.  I'm pulling the engine out of my 68 AS ghia today.  need to replace the front main seal.  I'll take some pics and post them in a few days.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you all!

Dave Buckholts

Hiya Dave,

Welcome to the AutoStick ward of the VW Mental Health Hospital.

Pictures are always appreciated!  Looking forward to seeing that 68 of yours.

Mike, I feel like a broken record.  THANKS AGAIN...

I just got a msg back from Darby:

QuoteI've used Mofoco for 30 years and they have always been very fair with me. If I was to build an engine for you it would be built around Mofoco parts and machine shop. My suggestion for an autostick car would be 1776 with stock cam and stock or 041 heads. Do anything off base with the cam and the carb will hate it, it will throw off the vacuum signals and the A/S will suffer. Go anything bigger and the clutch will not handle the power.

Now, I think I might be closer to selecting a longblock than I realize.

Hiya Dave,

Is your 12 mm vacuum hose from the intake manifold to the control valve wire reinforced?  If not, it should be.

Sorry but I am going to ask that we get back on topic.  Dave, please start a new thread so that you can get much better responses.

Now, I have been on the samba and a member (nsracing) is posting that he has a 1776 available.  I have never heard anything (good or bad) about this member.  Does anyone have any comments?  I have pm'd him asking for more information.  I will post when I get a response.  I am edging towards cb or aircooled.

Thanks,
Brad

Hiya Brad,

I do not know nsracing and have not heard of any products from that shop.  So, no comment on the quality of his product.

But I would offer this.............  buying a 1600 usually offers economy of scale value.  That is to say, even a very well built 1600 will cost significantly less than any performance engine, even a mild one.  That's because of two factors.  The marketplace is awash in parts suitable for a 1600 rebuild and those parts are relatively cheap.  Definitely not the case for performance parts.  For example a set of Mahle pistons and cylinders for a 1600 will cost you about $175.  Performance cylinders and pistons (a set of 90.5s for a 1776) will cost you around $325.  

Then too a performance engine usually requires more "hands on" time from the assembler.  This comes from tailoring the fit of the parts properly and speding extra time calculating the geometry of the engine.

Consequently, those extra horses you get with a performance engine do cost a bunch'a extra bucks.  And as is often said of engines, you can have three attributes for an engine:  performance, reliability, and economy.  Choose two.  

Thanks Mike,

I definitely do not need performance.  The Autostick mechanicals really wont handle it.  So, you think a 1600 would do just fine?

Hiya Brad,

Hmmmmm.............I definitely do not want to come off as being anti-performance.  I'm not.  Matter of fact, at the moment I'm seriously considering building a 1776 for my Bus. 

The real point I was trying to make is that extra horsepower is more expensive per unit than standard horsepower.  For example, a very rough example, suppose a 1600 rebuild cost you $1600.  That's $1.00 for each cubic centimeter.  Say a 1776 rebuild costs $2400 a difference from the standard of $800.  That means that those 176 extra cubic centimeters each cost about $4.50.  Spendy but worth it if you have the use for the 176.

And do know that an AutoStick in good health will handle most 1776 builds.  We just don't want to see anything much over 90 hp pushing that AS tranny and clutch components.

Now, on the other hand, a fresh 1600 will give you surprising performance.  I rebuilt the 1600 in my AS (actually converted it back to its original singleport configuration from a dualport) and the difference between "then" and "now" is most gratifying.  Personally, I wouldn't run anything else but a 1600 in my AutoStick.

Quote from: Bookwus on 28 December 2009, 01:06
I rebuilt the 1600 in my AS (actually converted it back to its original singleport configuration from a dualport) and the difference between "then" and "now" is most gratifying.

Bookwus,

Why the switch back to the singleport? On the surface it would seem a performance step backwards. The new performance you've noticed, is it due the singleport? or maybe just a better built/ newer engine?

Hiya Dave,

It was the stock-Nazi part of my personality coming to the forefront.

My 1970 Bug originally came with a singleport engine and I wanted to take the engine back to OEM (sort-of) condition.  The cooling system remains doghouse style (with the offset oil cooler) to insure that number three stays relatively cool.  I'm in the process of rebuilding an OEM Pierburg fuel pump and will change out my SVDA to a vacuum only 205T.  Here's what it looks like now.........

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/Bookwus1/Bug/IMG_1622.jpg)

 Brad, didn't mean to hijack your thread.  Mike, would you move my post to the most approlriate forum, please.

On the engine subject, I really like sp engines for several reasons. They tend to cool better, give a tad more torque. I've run and built both but the sp engines seem to be better all around stock performers.
I have a sp in my wife's 65 bus and we drive the mess out of it w/o any problems for 4 years.  The next engine for her bus will be a nice 1776 SP w/ some baby Dellortos.

I would bet that you would be happy w/ a stock DP 1600 from a reputable vendor.
Did you check out nsracing's feedback in the vendor forum on samba?  Good resource.

Dave, please don't take my comment too harshly.  I was just hoping to get some info (and so were you!)

As for nsracing, yes, I have been in contact with Nick.  He seems like a decent guy.

Unfortunately, the wife and I need to redirect some $$ for other things.  That means this project might be on hold until maybe August/September or even next spring.

I will definitely reply to this thread when we feel we can get this project rolling again.  We will just have to deal with a leaky engine for now (along with poor mpg).

Thanks,
Brad

Hiya Brad,

Quote from: bowlingbrad on 28 December 2009, 14:38 ......Unfortunately, the wife and I need to redirect some $$ for other things.  That means this project might be on hold until maybe August/September or even next spring.

Life often does get in the way of plans!

Quote......We will just have to deal with a leaky engine for now (along with poor mpg).........

There could be help for that IF you are willing to put in some "free" labor yourself.  Costs would likely be pretty minimal - probably not more than $50 to pull the engine, do some reasealing and a full tune-up.

Hiya Dave,

As requested, I moved your picture post over to the General Discussion forum.  It's been retitled to "My Karmann Ghia AutoStick"

Thanks Mike!

I very well might look into that.  MUCH less $$.

Thanks again,
Brad