So here we go, i bought this little car the other day, i knew it had issues, since it came with extra parts ;) first and foremost is, when i shift into first or reverse there is a horible grinding noise, when i start driving no problems shifting and downshifting, just the initial start. not sure where to start.... also it runs a little rough and my understanding is that the shifting is based on the rpm;s of the motor?? would a tune up fix this or what do i need to do? im new to car repair in general, but i can turn a wrench and follow instructions!! if you need pictures or video to help let me know of what and ill do it. thanks in advance
Brock
Happy Owner of an Antique VW
Hello there and welcome!
Congrats on purchacing one of the most unique breeds of VW's!
The Auto-Stick is a very special breed all of its own, and here on this site, we work to keep this breed among the living.
The Auto-Stick requires some additional things to operate as compared to the average 4 speed VW:
-Automatic Transmission Fluid (Dexron/MerconIII).
-Full engine manifold vacuum
-Vacuum reserve tank.
-A special shifter lever.
-Some additional electrical.
-A shift Control Valve.
-A special tandem engine oil pump.
-Vacuum operated clutch servo.
-Special 12mm vacuum hoses.
-An additional vacuum port on the Carburetor.
-And, Of course, the transmission.
-There are other minor things that don't need mentioning.
First thing that needs to be done is to check all the large 12mm vacuum lines. There are 3 total. These vacuum lines are the reason most of these cars are no longer on the road. That and a serious lack of knowledgeable mechanics/owners (we aim to fix that).
Give each hose a firm squeeze between your thumb and forefinger the entire length of each hose. If you feel even the slightest "soft spot", the hose is leaking and must be replaced. One of the other members here will chime in and post the source for the hose, it is special hose, and only that hose should be used.
Next, please post a picture of your carburetor, specifically how the vacuum lines are connected to it. 95% of the time, the Control Valve shift signal line is connected incorrectly, and/or the incorrect carburetor is installed. It is easier to see first, then tell, than trying to describe it to anyone.
Check and make sure your ATF level is full. It should be checked with the engine off.
Check your shifter. Inside the shifter there is a set of contact points. "greenghia" seems to have a pretty good adjustment procedure down for the shifter contacts. Here is the link: http://www.vwar.org/forum/index.php?topic=971.0 (Third post in).
Before you adjust the shifter points, you should disassemble the shifter and clean the points. THE CLEANER THE BETTER!!!! Reassemble and readjust.
The tune up should always be checked, especially if you have no idea when it was last done.
A poor idle can be caused by a poor ignition system, poorly adjusted carburetor, misadjusted valves, and vacuum leaks from the 12mm hoses. A poorly running/misadjusted engine will severely lower the engine vacuum and cause many shifting issues, some of which you already described.
One last thing for now. What extra parts did you get with the car? You never know what kind of interesting things the previous customer bought for it, some of it may come in handy.
Hope this helps out a little bit. The other members will chime in soon with additional information, all very good info. These guys know their Auto-Sticks!!!
-Evan.
Hiya Brock,
If you follow Evan's advice above I'd be surprised if you don't remedy your current problem. Good suggestions one and all.
A couple of general things to know about AutoSticks...........shifting is an electrical function with a vacuum assist. That means whenever you have shifting-type problems they are almost always either electrical or vacuum related. Since you can shift on the fly it sounds to me as if your problem might well be vacuum related in nature. Evan has already suggested checking your hoses (proper replacement hose can be had at your local Mercedes dealer and a couple of other places - you'll need about five feet - check out this thread for more info - http://www.vwar.org/forum/index.php?topic=872.0) and connections. Allow me to add that the "weak spot" in the vacuum system has been the clutch servo. It has a rubber bladder inside that can (and does) give up the ghost. A rebuild kit for the clutch servo is available for about $25.
Best of luck and if you have any questions zap them to us here and we'll get you going again.
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm213/violentvance/cars/ this is the link to the pictures of the engine compartment, i checked the lines they seem fine, gonna check the shifter when this rain passes, im sure ill have more questions too, also the random parts are a speedo cable speedometer or tac not sure cant remember, orignal taillights, new window cranks, diffrent lugnuts, stuff like that!!
anyway thanks again
Brock
Hello again!
As suspected, the control valve shift signal vacuum line is connected to the incorrect port on the carburetor. The line needs to be connected to the center most port on the front of the carburetor (the small vacuum line on the carb, facing you), as shown in this picture of BOOKWUS's car (at least I think that's his car).
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo1/singlcab61/IMG_0777.jpg)
This may change the way the car shifts. You may have to readjust the control valve and possibly the clutch.
could you point out in one of my pictures where the hose is wrong and where it should go?? and could you show me where the control valve is in one of the pictures? this would be awesome if its something simple, i got the car fairly cheap i think and would love to have a running antique ;)
Hiya Brock,
OK.......here's the hose rerouting schematic.....................
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/Bookwus1/Decorated%20images/101_1900.jpg)
Disconnect the hose from the vacuum port designated by the red arrow. Hook the hose up to the vacuum port designated by the green arrow. Use the cap on the green arrow vacuum port to cap off the red arrow port.
This guy is your control valve.............
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/Bookwus1/Decorated%20images/101_1901.jpg)
For what it's worth............You really have a jumble of wiring laying around that engine. Not a particularly good thing. And you really should replace that large vacuum hosing coming out of the control valve. That stuff looks like unreinforced heater hose. That would be a BIG no-no. You might want to get that fuel filter out of your engine compartment also. Fire is not fun.
Hello,
Thank you Mike for clarifying what I was describing. I should have done that myself but didn't think about it.
As Mike pointed out, the large hose for the control valve looks like unreinforced heater hose. Heater hose is designed to withstand pressure, not vacuum, and little pressure at that (20-25psi). They easily collapse under vacuum. That is 99% likely your gear shift grind problem. That and some easy minor adjustments.
Mike (or any of our other veteran Auto-Stick guru's), have you ever seen an Auto-Stick with the 12mm vacuum supply hose for the control valve coming out of the drivers side intake manifold elbow? I always thought they came out of the manifold center section under the carburetor. I am aware that the intake is of the EGR era of '73-'74, but never seen that setup before...................Input.............?????
-Evan.
Quote from: singlecab61 on 10 February 2010, 16:37
Mike (or any of our other veteran Auto-Stick guru's), have you ever seen an Auto-Stick with the 12mm vacuum supply hose for the control valve coming out of the drivers side intake manifold elbow? I always thought they came out of the manifold center section under the carburetor. I am aware that the intake is of the EGR era of '73-'74, but never seen that setup before...................Input.............?????
Evan, I was thinking the same thing. That sure looks like hillbilly engineering at it's finest. I'm sure they did it because they replaced the original manifold with a newer one without the vacuum pickup. I wonder though if it would effect how the left side of the engine would run (leaner/richer?).
Dave
so i moved the hose, its kinda dry rotted, is that the 12mm hose? keep in mind im american and the metric system isnt the clearest to me? that and im gonna send a closeup of the shifter, if you could explain how to adjust that and the control valve i think ill be in good shape.
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm213/violentvance/cars/101_1924.jpg)
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm213/violentvance/cars/101_1923.jpg)
where is that hose supposed to be?
heres the shifter, how do i adjust that?
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm213/violentvance/cars/101_1926.jpg)
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm213/violentvance/cars/101_1927.jpg)
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm213/violentvance/cars/101_1928.jpg)
the hose over by the control valve, where does that go?
ill be sittin here waiting for your responces, thanks alot in advance, wish i could just remodel a VW guys house in trade to fix this, im so confused, but you guys are sure clearing alot of this up!
Brock,
If I were you, (and trust me I'm only just slightly more knowledgeable about VW's than yourself) I would stick to one aspect of this problem. If you start trying to adjust the control valve at this stage, you're just adding more variables to the equation.
For now the general feeling is that you have vacuum problem. Focus on that. Start by reconnecting the small vacuum line to the proper hook up on the carb. Then see if that helps.
My next step would be to order the larger control valve vacuum hose.
I've organized a section for parts that you may find helpful.
http://www.vwar.org/forum/index.php?topic=709.msg5636#msg5636
This hose can be pricey, but is needed to have the transmission run properly. Try your local Mercedes dealer for the cheapest way and Belmetric if that doesn't work.
After the vacuum lines are in top shape, you'll only have a few more areas to look at.
As always pictures are very helpful in trying to help you out.
Dave
Quote from: Brock on 10 February 2010, 18:53
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm213/violentvance/cars/101_1928.jpg)
the hose over by the control valve, where does that go?
That hose is not something that VW designed. Track it back through the right side of the engine bay and let us know what it's connected to.
not gonna start adjusting anything yet, tryin to figure the hoses out so your correct, im going one at a time ;)
Hiya Brock,
Well I got everything "arrowed" over at PhotoBucket but PB isn't letting me download the finished picture >:(
So, we'll go with a written description.
1. The hose that enters the engine compartment on the right, runs across the fan shroud, and terminates close to the control valve is part of your emissions system. The open end of the hose ties into the stock oil bath air filter. Of course, you are outta luck on that count with that chrome aftermarket job
2. The other hose coming in from the right hand side of the engine compartment is also part of the emissions system. The idea here is that air pressure (generated by the fan inside the fanshroud) forces air outward (to the right in your picture) and down through the emissions canister (which should be mounted in your right rear fenderwell) to pick up loose hydrocarbons from the gas tank. This air full of hydrocarbons is then routed through the hose in number 1 above to the air cleaner where the carburetor sucks them down for burning.
3. The hose coming out of the oil filler assembly is a crankcase ventilation hose. Vapors from the crankcase move through this hose to the stock air filter. Another reason to start looking for a stock air filter.
4. Hoses 1, 2, and 3 should be 12mm hoses. What you have now looks to be 5/8 heater hose which is close to 12 mm sizing but not at all suitable for the job.
3. The small vacuum hose (which you now have correctly placed!) is a 3 mm hose.
can you send me the links to your pb pictures? and should i just try and change out all the hoses? i have a buddy that works at a small car lot/salavage yard i got the car from and he can get all the hoses, minus the 12mm special hose, but if i could actully see in the picture which ones are 1 2 and 3 i could swap them out and see if that works!!
will a heavy duty 7/16 braided hose work for the 12mm hose?
Hiya Brock,
Sorry but PhotoBucket seems to be locked up for me. I can get into my account but that's about it. Can't even post up a link for you.
I'll have to tweak it a bit, I guess.
Truthfully, 7/16 hose will probably work for a limited amount of time. But it will collapse sooner or later. You're going to be much better off just buying the 12 mm wire reinforced vacuum stuff.
And replacing those hoses (1, 2, and 3) with 12mm regular (they do not need to be reinforced) braided hose will be fine. But that will leave you with the problem of where to hook them up. You do not have that oh so necessary stock air filter.
actully i do have it, should i put it back on?
the 3 hoses that were talking about i looked closer, and the back wire enforced hose is falling all apart, i plan on replaceing them, i should put the stock airfilter back on too? and im gonna replace the hose that goes to the carb too... plan on doing it in the next day or 2, ill let you know if that fixes it!!
Hiya Brock,
Oh, by all means, get rid of that chrome aftermarket air filter. The OEM oil bath air filter is the best air filter you can use. It doesn't look as flashy as that chrome wonder but it will outperform it any day of the week. And the oil bath air filter has a built-in velocity stack which actually helps to improve engine performance. Of course, the stock oil bath air filter will also provide you the ports for those hoses!
About the hoses....my recommendation..... change out all the large hosing from the control valve to 12mm OEM wire reinforced hosing. The small 3mm hose from the control valve to the carburetor can be regular braided hose (it does NOT need to be wire reinforced). The other hoses (numbers 1, 2, and 3 in a previous post) can all be 12 mm regular braided hose (non-wire nreinforced).
Quote from: Bookwus on 11 February 2010, 00:57
Hiya Brock,
Oh, by all means, get rid of that chrome aftermarket air filter. The OEM oil bath air filter is the best air filter you can use. It doesn't look as flashy as that chrome wonder but it will outperform it any day of the week. And the oil bath air filter has a built-in velocity stack which actually helps to improve engine performance. Of course, the stock oil bath air filter will also provide you the ports for those hoses!
About the hoses....my recommendation..... change out all the large hosing from the control valve to 12mm OEM wire reinforced hosing.
arent these the same 3 hoses we have been talkin about?
i wish yer photobucket was workin write, i think i figured it all out, attach my 2 loose hoses to the orignal air filter, and the change out the control valve hoses to 12mm OEM... what other hoses other then the carb do i need to change?
The small 3mm hose from the control valve to the carburetor can be regular braided hose (it does NOT need to be wire reinforced). The other hoses (numbers 1, 2, and 3 in a previous post) can all be 12 mm regular braided hose (non-wire nreinforced).
I noticed something in the picture of the shift lever. The to adjusting sleve is kitty whompus. The slot for the movement of the lever should be aligned with the car front to back. I see that it is pointing off center. This caused my shifter to act up too. You aren't getting a good contact when trying to move the lever as the shifter points are not always being engaged. So when you adjust the shifting points, you should make sure that this slot is aligned front to back.
Carl
Quote from: hercdriver on 10 February 2010, 18:39
Quote from: singlecab61 on 10 February 2010, 16:37
Mike (or any of our other veteran Auto-Stick guru's), have you ever seen an Auto-Stick with the 12mm vacuum supply hose for the control valve coming out of the drivers side intake manifold elbow? I always thought they came out of the manifold center section under the carburetor. I am aware that the intake is of the EGR era of '73-'74, but never seen that setup before...................Input.............?????
Evan, I was thinking the same thing. That sure looks like hillbilly engineering at it's finest. I'm sure they did it because they replaced the original manifold with a newer one without the vacuum pickup. I wonder though if it would effect how the left side of the engine would run (leaner/richer?).
Dave
I'm not sure about the running issue. I would say definitely so if there was a vacuum leak in the 12mm hose system. I also don't think that the 3-4 side of the engine is a good place for the CV system since 3-4 run hotter already.
I do, however know that a 1971 Baywindow bus, 1971 being the only year with a TYPE 1 engine and front disc brakes, has a manifold center section with the same 12mm hose port for the brake booster that the the Auto-Sticks have. These are actually easier to find than an Auto-Stick manifold. He would need a new left side manifold elbow if he replaced the manifold.
I have a good used dual port Auto-Stick manifold center section if anyone is interested, I dual carbs, so I don't need it.