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Discussion Forums => Pictures => Topic started by: FlamingChris on 21 September 2008, 14:48

Title: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 21 September 2008, 14:48
This is my '68 semi-auto that i picked up on sunday. The guy i bought it off took it apart 20 years ago after the engine broke, he then had it resprayed and had the transaxle overhauled but never got round to putting it back togther. It's now my job to put it back togther which i imagine will involve me staring at parts for hours on end trying to work out what they're for. I removed the wings yesterday as they incorrect for the year and the next job is to have it resprayed, although i can't decide on a colour, and work out whats wrong with the engine.

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1261.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1262.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1263.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1264.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1265.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1266.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1267.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1268.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1269.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1270.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1271.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1272.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1273.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1274.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1275.jpg)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 21 September 2008, 19:03
Hiya Chris,

You are one lucky guy.

Most of get into projects with really dirty and grungy cars and parts.  You are starting off relatively clean and with a rebuilt transaxle to boot.  Very nice.

Some observations and questions..............

Looks as though your rear decklid is also not appropriate for 1968.  An OEM 1968 decklid would have no vents.  The vents were in troduced to sedans in 1970 with the larger 1600 engine for cooling.

Does your engine turn by hand?  What is all the yellow stuff on the right of the fan shroud?  Did you get a distributor in your parts stash?

Parts for the sunroof can be very difficult to locate.  You might want to make that an early priority if you seem to be missing some.

When you run into a part that puzzles you, just post up a picture of it and we'll chime in with our thoughts.

Have fun!



Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 21 September 2008, 20:16
Hey,

That yellow stuff is a sponge that the previous owner stuffed to, i assume, soak up the oil from the air filter. The engine does turn by hand, it does feel a bit rough but i can't be sure if thats the flex plate rubbing against the back of the trolley it's currently on or whether it's something a little more serious. I found a dizzy in with all the other parts but there are a lot of spares and mutliples of many bits as well, i have four dynamo's and six wing mirrors! Onto the sunroof, fortunately, i believe i have al the parts. I had the manual out yesterday checking to see how it fit and all the other parts are taped up to it, seems like the guy i bought it off knew it was going to be some time before it was back together again.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 21 September 2008, 21:36
Hiya Chris,

You are now a regular parts inventory warehouse!

A thought...............

Because of the non-68 fenders (wings) and the non-68 decklid and the multiplicity of parts in general, a question occurs to me.  Did the previous owner ever have the car in a running condition?  As in a complete MOT certified, road ready condition?

The reason I ask is this; if the car was on the road, you are reasonably assured that most vital parts will be there.  On the other hand, if this car was purchased by the previous owner as a project (much as you did) there may be important parts missing.

Well, I'm sure you'll be spending some time doing an inventory in the coming weeks.  That should give you an idea if you have the complete car or if you'll have to scrounging and buying.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 21 September 2008, 21:51
That i cannot be sure of, i know at some point it actually moved but i can only go on what the previous owner told me, i can only assume if what he told me was correct that he liked the look of them and that he liked the look of them and decided to fit what he liked rather than keep it standard.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 21 September 2008, 22:06
Hiya Chris,

Be sure to keep us posted.  Use the camera a bunch.  We'll be looking forward to seeing how this one comes together!
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 22 September 2008, 07:33

Hi
thanks for the pics... makes My mouth water...
looks really great... lucky to stsrt with a car in good condition..
If You have the headlamps and tail lamps to fit the fenders
I would use them to get the car on the road..   lol

I have a 1976 engine cover with all the vents on My car
to stop any overheating in the hot summers We have..
but I have taped up the vents from under the lid
for winter....  I'd keep the engine lid seeing its painted...

I have actually seen two 1968 original beetles
with the sloping headlamps and early tail lamps
One was sold in France and the other was sold in Australia in 1968
all the paperwork was in the glovebox...
it was meant to go to another country, but was offloaded and sold in Sydney
and was a one owner car... both cars were white standard beetles
that is, they were NOT de luxe models - no chrome etc..

Next question is - Are you going to take the heads off the engine?
to check everything is clean inside there..
moisture may have gotten into any cylinders which have open
exhaust valves...  could be a bit of rust in a cylinder..

Best of Luck with the restoration..

and keep the camera close by...

cheers

Lee

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 22 September 2008, 15:03
That engine's gonna be fully stripped down, i don't know whats wrong with it so i might as well take a look.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 22 September 2008, 15:14
That engine's gonna be fully stripped down, i don't know whats wrong with it so i might as well take a look.


thats good news..
as you can see in the exhaust ports there is a bit of corrosion in there
so it all needs to be cleaned up..

I also recommend you change the two oil seals in the ATF/engine oil pump... [evw]
and the torque converter seal... and naturally the crankshaft seal...
and push rod tube seals...

it doesn't take much moisture in a cylinder to pit the wall of the cylinder
You only need to replace the one cylinder if its pitted...

best of luck

Lee

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug



Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 22 September 2008, 18:43
Hiya 68,

Yes.  Good advice from Lee concerning replacing the seals.

And I would add...........

Take a hard look at the oil cooler and its seals while you have everything apart.  I'm rebuilding my 1600 SP Bus engine right now and I'm electing to modify it for a doghouse oil cooler.  That will get the oil cooler out of the way of cooling air for cylinder number 3 and, hopefully, add to the life of the engine.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 23 September 2008, 02:34
Mike
I believe having a doghouse oil cooler will keep number 3 cylinder the same temp as the others.
and its a modification VW did themselves..
so it has to be Good.

cheers

Lee



Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 24 September 2008, 13:45
Can someone tell me what the hole in the front center is for, i've been trawling the internet and haven't found an answer yet!

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/CIMG1261.jpg)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 24 September 2008, 14:29
FlamingChris,
                 That's where your shifter rod comes out of the tunnel on a standard model bug. Supers have what is known as a "deformation plate" on the frame head for that purchase. It's been a while, but IIRC there is another hole in the spare wheel well or the frame head between the beams which has a cover. Remove the two covers and out comes your shift rod.


HTH
Volkenstein
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 24 September 2008, 17:37
Hiya Chris,

Yes, Sean's got it!

If you look straight back through the hole you SHOULD see a cover plate for the hole on the rear side of the spare tire well.  When that is removed you should see an oval shaped cover plate (held in place with two 10 mm bolts) covering the the access into the central tunnel.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 24 September 2008, 18:06


I've had all the covers and the front round piece off but I've yet to actually take the shifter
rod out as yet...
hopefully I never will have to..   
and i've never seen one out either...

so they must last forever..
and they are probably left inside the tunnel when a chassis is crushed etc..

Lee

;D ;D


Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 24 September 2008, 20:37
Cheers, i hope i can find the cover plate amongst all of the bits!
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 13 October 2008, 19:35
I've been looking at the engine today (no photo's as yet) but it appears that my flex plate is warped, where am i most likely to find myself another one?
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 14 October 2008, 02:49
Hiya Chris,

Well, there's the Samba.........................http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=667928

Or e-Bay.............http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-BEETLE-BUG-GHIA-AUTOSTICK-TRANS-FLYWHEEL-FLEXPLATE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQitemZ250101519589
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 14 October 2008, 03:34


thats bad luck
the flexplates are rather fragile and i believe many get damaged when
they are being taken off to go to a manual clutch...
and no care is taken...

cheers

Lee

Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 16 October 2008, 14:50
Cheers guys, i've emailed the ebay seller to see if he'll ship it out to me.

My next quetsion is what method should i use to remove my bent flex plate as I've only removed a manual flywheel with the tool that grips into the starter motor teeth.  ???
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 16 October 2008, 22:07
Hiya Chris,

There are a couple of ways of preventing the flexplate from rotating while you apply force to the gland nut.

Remove a spark plug and insert a length of cotton rope into the combustion chamber.  Now apply your breaker and socket to the gland nut and apply force.  The gland nut (and the crank) will rotate until the piston compresses the rope in the combustion chamber.  The rope will prevent the piston from full travel thus locking it and the crank and the gland nut.  You should then be able to remove the gland nut.  I've tried this method and it works well.  Do be careful that both valves are closed when going this route.

Or........Have you noticed that holes in the flexplate (for the torque converter bolts) pretty much line up with the holes in the engine case on top and the studs in the engine case on the bottom?  You can manufacture tabs which bolt into the holes (or onto the studs) and bolt into the flexplate.  This will hold the flexplate in one position nicely.  But use as many (all four) as you can.  The flexplate is prone to warping if put under rotational stress from one or two positions only.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto - flexplate removal... Good Info ..
Post by: 68autobug on 18 October 2008, 12:16
Hiya Chris,

There are a couple of ways of preventing the flexplate from rotating while you apply force to the gland nut.

Remove a spark plug and insert a length of cotton rope into the combustion chamber.  Now apply your breaker and socket to the gland nut and apply force.  The gland nut (and the crank) will rotate until the piston compresses the rope in the combustion chamber.  The rope will prevent the piston from full travel thus locking it and the crank and the gland nut.  You should then be able to remove the gland nut.  I've tried this method and it works well.  Do be careful that both valves are closed when going this route.

Or........Have you noticed that holes in the flexplate (for the torque converter bolts) pretty much line up with the holes in the engine case on top and the studs in the engine case on the bottom?  You can manufacture tabs which bolt into the holes (or onto the studs) and bolt into the flexplate.  This will hold the flexplate in one position nicely.  But use as many (all four) as you can.  The flexplate is prone to warping if put under rotational stress from one or two positions only.


that IS good information...

I couldn't work out any way to hold the flexplate apart from holding the crankshaft pulley
with a long piece of angle bolted to My nice alloy crankshaft pulley
which cracked under the strain....

and i thought and thought....  but thats all i could come up with...
I wasn't game enough to tackle the flexplate
in case I damaged it...
and you won't find that information in any book....lol

VW used a special number XXXX to hold the flex plate...

Lee



Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto - how to remove the gland nut on the flexplate
Post by: 68autobug on 18 October 2008, 12:20

Apologies for the size of the photo...
if anyone needs to see it larger
I can find the original photo

cheers

Lee
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 18 October 2008, 12:50
Cheers, well i'm going to try to remove it today, i think that's whats causing the engine to bind as the bent flexplate is catching on the casing or i'll remove it and find it still binding and then have more stripping down to do.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 18 October 2008, 19:53
Bookwus you're a genius, that rope down the spark plug hole worked a treat!

Anyway we started to strip the engine down today which revealed to us that the engine dropped a valve and completely mullered the one of the pistons. We had a lot of trouble attempting to remove the crankshaft pulley which we still haven't managed to shift, any hints/tips??

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/18102008200.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/18102008201.jpg)

Dropped Valve:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/18102008202.jpg)

Remainder of the piston:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/18102008203.jpg)

The culprit!:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/18102008205.jpg)

Barrel:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/18102008207.jpg)

How it's been left for today:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/18102008208.jpg)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 18 October 2008, 22:23
Hiya Chris,

..........We had a lot of trouble attempting to remove the crankshaft pulley which we still haven't managed to shift, any hints/tips?.......

Assuming that you do have the pulley nut removed, try this...................

Grab the biggest screwdriver you can find (the one I use for this has a 12 inch shaft) and a two pound sledge hammer.  Now move around and behind the pulley so that you are looking the "other side" of the pulley from about the position of the number 2 cylinder (the opposite side from the distributor).  The engine case on this side slants in toward the center on a diagonal.  This will allow you to place the screwdriver so that it contacts the pulley very close to its center.  Once you have contact a couple of good sharp raps should have that pulley off quick time.  This technique almost always works for me.  Should the pulley be fixed in place by rust or corrosion you'll probably need a puller to get it off.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 19 October 2008, 19:40
I gave in and went out and bought myself a puller whihc did the trick in no time at all but then work came to an abrupt halt when we discovered this:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/19102008212.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/19102008211.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/19102008210.jpg)

New case time methinks..
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 19 October 2008, 21:38
Hiya Chris,

I'd second that!

That crack looks as if it was caused by the shrapnel from your piston.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 72VDub on 19 October 2008, 23:15
After seeing all that, and then finding the crank I would be tempted to pull the case apart to have a look see.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 20 October 2008, 01:26
After seeing all that, and then finding the crank I would be tempted to pull the case apart to have a look see.

Definitely, that's the new issue at the moment, we spent about an hour trying to split the case today but to no avail. I think it's tool shopping time again!
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 20 October 2008, 11:06

it looks like new engine time...
or at least a new case and piston & cylinder etc...

Bad Luck...

many years ago I was driving on the highway when a valve was dropped..
or I should say the head of a valve...

I don't know what the Non VW local mechanic done..
but it leaked oil from after it was fixed.....

the valves are made in two pieces of metal.. which sounds strange to Me...

I wonder if the New stainless steel valves are made from one piece of Metal?

in the 50s and 60s that was the most common problem with beetle engines...
and usually number 3 cylinder....  back then the oil cooler was over the top of Number 3 cylinder..

LEE


Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 20 October 2008, 11:07
Chris,
       I know I missed the tiny nut down below #1 the first time around on a junk motor I have.
I was pussy-footing it with case tapping so no harm done. Found it, undid it and it separated quite nicely with a lot of small plastic hammer taps. So, just have a whip around and check you've got them all.

Regards
Volkenstein
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 02 December 2008, 11:40
Well we split the case a couple of weeks ago and this is what we discovered:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/GetAttachment.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/GetAttachment1.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/GetAttachment2.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/GetAttachment3.jpg)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 02 December 2008, 18:55
Hiya Chris,

One word...................ick!
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 03 December 2008, 02:15


Hi

thats some damage.... 

although the case looks OK..??

LEE



Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 03 December 2008, 11:37
There doesn't look to be too much damage to the crank and cam, the only marks i can find are on the end of the conrod where it hit the case. Fortunately i have a new (used) case that i can use and i'm going to take that to be inspected to see if it needs align boring today.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 08 December 2008, 12:33
Did a little bit yesterday after managing to drag myself out of bed at the crack of noon.

As it started:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/07122008237.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/07122008238.jpg)

Front wings on:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/07122008240.jpg)

and rear wings and lights on:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/07122008242.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/07122008244.jpg)

I also discovered that the steering damper didn't have a lug welded to the beam, now all i have to do is learn how to weld:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/07122008235.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/07122008234.jpg)

Hopefully I'm going to sort through some of the boxes of stuff today to find the door catch mechanisms so i can finally shut the doors and possibly find some of the switches and relays so i can tackle this mess next:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/07122008236.jpg)

Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 09 December 2008, 08:45

The car looks great...
Nice 1971 engine cover...
early front fenders/guards/wings....
Late model tail lamp and Fenders/wings/guards..

LEE


Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 10 December 2008, 12:19
Bit of a mismatch ain't it, but i'm just using the parts that came with it. Hopefully over the years i'll get it a bit more towards standard but i just want it back on the road for now.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 16 December 2008, 01:57
Ok change of plan, hopefully going to find someone to colour match the correct wings now. We fit them to see how well they matched up and they weren't too bad at all, gotta fit some rivenuts though a the welds on the original captive nuts finally gave out. Anywho..pictures:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/141220082571.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/141220082561.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/141220082551.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/141220082541.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/141220082531.jpg)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 20 December 2008, 06:26

You have made more work for Yourself...
I was lucky enough to find two New front fenders hanging in a fellows shed
from the early 70s...  that i bought very cheap...

Best invention is the removeable rear valance..
makes pulling the engine very easy...

I like a bit of mix and match... and updated bits...

cheers

LEE




Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 17 January 2009, 18:44
Did the tiniest amount of tinkering today as it was blooming freezing on my driveway, but the sum of it is that i managed to put the wings back on (although i forgot to take a photo at the end). I picked the wings up from the sprayers on thursday and i don't think they've done a bad job in matching up the colour.....pics:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00051.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00052-1.jpg)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 23 January 2009, 01:02
Spent most of today cleaning parts ready to be fit this weekend. Barrels, pistons and heads all had a bit of work:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00058.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00057-1.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00053.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00056-1.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00054.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00055.jpg)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 26 January 2009, 01:45
Had to strip down the engine today to flip the cam plug so it wouldn't bind on the flex plate. After eventually breaking the hold of the gland nut using a ladder, some rachet straps and a lot of jumping and swearing we stripped it down and cleaned everything up. After doing a lot of reading/dvd watching/internet trawling i checked it out for wear and everything appears to be in good-ish condition, seemed a shame to strip it apart but i needed that plug flipping.

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00060-1.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00063-1.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00061-1.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00064-1.jpg)

The only issue i have is that as i put the case back together i put the bottom of the new semi-auto pump in with the manual pump cover over the top so as it held the pump in the case. Whenever i tighten up the cover it made the engine so tight it wouldn't turn over, any ideas? I can't see how the pump could affect the whole of the engine, i haven't yet put the crankshaft shims back in just yet but other than that it's back to the engine it was before!
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 26 January 2009, 05:23

Hi
I'm guessing that the engine oil pump gears are longer than the standard ones..
so I wouldn't do up the standard cover as You may damage something...

I just looked at a spare pump I have but I cannot tell..
but I know all the parts from the dual pump are NOT compatiable with the single pump..
so I wouldn't bolt that plate on... unless you put a few flat washers between the plate and the engine..

cheers

LEE


Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 26 January 2009, 20:25
Upon closer inspection it appeared as though the 'guide tube'(?) for the driven gear in the pump was fouling in the front of the cam. You can see where it's been rubbing on the cam in this photo:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00066-1.jpg)

So I measured it all up and it was too long by about 2mm, so a quick blast with the file and all my clearance issues were sorted!

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00067-1.jpg)

Then i spent ages trying to fit the seals in the pump as they just didn't want to go in the recess, so much so that i've got blisters on my thumbs from trying to squeeze them in, but it was all worth it to achieve this:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00069-1.jpg)

The engine's still a bit hard to turn over but i checked that it was down to the new seals in the pump, so hopefully it'll free off a bit when they're worn in.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 27 January 2009, 00:49
Chris,
       Regarding the reply I wrote on oil pumps...just make sure the tang isn't bottoming on the cam too. I can see a bit better where the pump case was hitting the cam but I can't be sure the tang isn't either. You can check it by cleaning the slot and using some pasticine (not plasti-guage) in it and check how far the tang is going into that slot.


Regards
Sean
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 27 January 2009, 01:44
Good idea, wish i'd thought of that sooner! I'll pull the pump (again!) tomorrow and try to find some blu-tak as i'd have no idea where to get pasticine around here (live right out in the middle of nowhere). I'll report back!

You said in the thread about oil pump differences I have a 1600 TP pump and a 3 rivet flat cam and that you weren't suprised i was having difficulties, what pump should i be fitting to the car then? I thought (probably my first mistake) that i had a late engine and a late pump, or are there more differences that are causing me issues?
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 27 January 2009, 03:09
Hiya Chris,

The primary determining factor in oil pump compatibility is the camshaft.  Is it dished?  Or is it flat? 

A secondary determining factor is the size of the oil passges in the your case.  You want to be sure to match up oil pump and case so that both have the same size oil passages.

Since twinport engines commonly ran dished cams along with 10mm oil passages the inner half of the oil pump would be a 109B.  It has the 10mm oil passages and the tang to engage the dished cam drive slot.

What oil pump should you be running?  That will depend entirely on the cam (in your case a flat cam) and the size of your oil passages (have you taken a look at them?)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 27 January 2009, 03:17
Chris,
       I would make sure your oil holes in the pump and the case line up somewhat. Measure where the oil holes start (from the pump flange) and then in the case where the mounting face is back to the oil holes.

I could see oiling difficulties is they don't line up. Particularly if the pump body overlaps the holes in the case by too much on the feed side on a small gallery engine.

What is your engine number? It's stamped below the generator/alternator stand...It is hard to judge what has happened in your engine's life without it..

Did you check your pump gears to flange depth?
Max .004 inch.
Most bods zero it by out running the pump body in a figure 8 on wet 'n' dry (600 or 800 grade). The thin gasket then provides sufficient clearance. I'm hesitant about recommending tearing the pump apart again as you may be up for a thin gasket if it tears....



Blu-Tac is OK, use a little and be careful to oil the pump tang a little as you wouldn't want it drop down into the case. Probably a lot stickier than kiddies plasticine ;D .


HTH
Sean

PS..took too long typing again ;D.  Mike and I are more or less on the same page re your case/cam/pump combo.
  
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 27 January 2009, 04:00

Well, I fiddle about and change things so I'm glad My pumps were the same lol...
or i would have had problems too...
it pays to have spare gaskets especially if the nearest shop is 300 kms away...   lol

just when you think everything has been explored in an autostick...
something like this happens.... :D :D

so, You learn something every day....

the pump seals.... did you push them in by hand???

also, has anyone ever taken the pressure valve out of a pump??

LEE




Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 27 January 2009, 04:46
I seem to remember looking at the holes earlier and noticing that they were the same size as the one's in the case so i don't think that's going to be an issue, or at least i hope not! My engine code is D1421769, which was pulled out of a '74 1303 (so i've been told).
I didn't check your pump gears to flange depth, that's another thing on the list tomorrow. I think i'll be alright for gaskets for now, i've got some left in a gasket kit and i haven't tightened anything up just yet, it's simply pushed into place.
Lee, i attempted to push those seals in by hand and i soon realised they weren't having any of it, i managed to press them in with the use of a washer and some mole grips, is there an easier way to do this for future reference cos it took me ages!!
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 27 January 2009, 05:50
Chris,
       You're now in possession of "A bastard son of 100 maniacs". The case started life as a 1300 SP from the mid 60's. Hence the flat cam etc.  If your pump holes line up OK, clearance OK, no tang interference.....run it.


Regards
Sean
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 27 January 2009, 07:43
Lee, i attempted to push those seals in by hand and i soon realised they weren't having any of it, i managed to press them in with the use of a washer and some mole grips, is there an easier way to do this for future reference cos it took me ages!!

I think I would have knocked the seals in with a piece of wood... [large flat piece] and a mallet.
so I couldn't push them thru the hole..
its funny how little things like this , You forget to write down etc...
I would knock in front axle hub seals the same way... [I have done this]

Sean, how would You press those seals in?? [without using a press i mean...lol]

Lee

Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 27 January 2009, 12:30
Lee,
     Same as you. Flat piece of something. Try and start the seal, then finish off by tapping on a flat piece of something (wood, aluminium etc..just not steel!).


Regards
Sean
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 27 January 2009, 13:04
I'm with you now. Where did you find the info about that engine?
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 27 January 2009, 13:14
I'm with you now. Where did you find the info about that engine?

My list shows its a 1978 1200 engine.... 

Engine numbers:   D1-415-741   to   D1-431-112    1200 engine
1st August 1977 to 31st July 1978


so its still a mystery...  I would think that all 1200 engines were sold in Europe..
as the last beetle made in Emden was a 1200 model...
they were popular in Germany and the UK etc where Fuel was Expensive...

Where are you located chris??

LEE



Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 27 January 2009, 13:41
In Suffolk in the U.K.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 27 January 2009, 15:11


Well thats why You have a 1200 engine case...
from 1978...  there weren't any 1200s in Australia since late 60s..
the Australian Country Buggy had 1200 or 1300 engines.
before that beetles had 1200s up to around 1966

Sean must have missed a number in Your engine number..

cheers

LEE



Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 27 January 2009, 16:29
Right, i pulled the pump and took some measurements:

The tang on my pump is 7.6mm deep
The depth of the slot in the cam is 8.4mm deep
With the gear in the case the tang pokes out 6.5mm

Now i know that the guide (or whatever it's called) no longer catches on the cam, so as the tang can only poke out 6.5mm and the slot in the cam is 8.4 deep then it can't be catching anywhere now. Although just to make sure of this i did the test with some blu-tak and it confirmed i was right.

I made sure the oil gallery holes lined up, i did try to get a photo but my camera was too big to get the angle, and that they were the same size (i also double checked on the manual pump i pulled out).  I'm quite happy everything lines up now and the engine now turns over quite freely. I'll just see whether it leaks/grinds to a halt upon start up (whenever that is, i've still got to put back together the rest of the car yet!).
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: AUTO on 27 January 2009, 18:20
Hi chris glad you've got it sorted now good luck with the rest
of the rebuild
buy the way the bentley book says to install new sealing nuts
with their plastic facing to-ward the pump cover i wonder if
they mean nylocks any way it might be worth trying them
all the best phil   
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 27 January 2009, 18:28
Yeah i bought a kit from EVW that had the sealing nuts with it, just smaller versions of the 6 main case nuts.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: hercdriver on 27 January 2009, 19:54
I think these are what you're looking for. They also have new seals/ gasket for the pump.

http://www.evwparts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=111115161&Category_Code=
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: AUTO on 27 January 2009, 20:52
Thanks for that Herc
I'll get some ordered asap
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 28 January 2009, 00:14
Lee/Chris,
              ??? :P :-[ . I think I did balls up that engine number search!!. So, not quite the son of 100 maniacs, maybe just one PO ;D.

I would hazard a guess that since it is a late case, your oil galleries are 1600TP size? Have you got dual relief valves in it too? Why on earth a flat cam in a late case ??? . Maybe

Anyway, sounds like you are good to go!


Regards
Sean

Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 28 January 2009, 00:50
It's a late case as it's dual relief. What's the difference between the flat and dished cam, or maybe my question should be why did VW change from a flat to dished cam? This engine was a 1200 SP when i took it apart and it'll now become a 1500 SP, well it will tomorrow...
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 28 January 2009, 01:40
Chris,
       I can only hazard a guess, and that would be the uprating of the oil system demanded certain changes. The dished cams are more recessed at the slot than a flat cam, although just about every aftermarket cam is still a flat cam. I would have thought VW would've changed every Type 1/3 engine over but maybe (as Lee has mentioned) because of the 1200/1300 SP's still being made they just used the old technology and the 1300/1600 DP's went "new"?

You could also have an aftermarket cam if that previous statement isn't true?

Dunno really....

Anyway, roll on tomorrow with the stump pulling 1500 cc's of unleashed flat four mayhem!!!

Regards
Sean
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 28 January 2009, 02:07
Well so long as it doesn't cause me any issues further down the line then i'm happy with it!
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 28 January 2009, 17:48
Today i realised my rookie mistake, i didn't know that the 1200 engines had a different crank and conrod size so as i started to try to knock the gudgeon pins into the conrod i found out they were too large (i think the 1200's used 20mm and everything else was 22mm). So it' looks like i've got to split the case again to swap the crank. I do have a spare crank in my garage but that came from the egine that dropped the valve so i'd expect it to be bent, so i'll buy a new one with conrods etc.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: AUTO on 28 January 2009, 18:29
Hi chris
I thought i'd had a bad day today, i got my engine back together
with the pistons barrels and heads push rod tubes ect all bolted up
then i looked down and saw the air defector plates that should have
been under the barrels before i fitted the push rod tubes  :o
my engine will have done 25 miles before it even starts  ;D
good luck
cheers phil
 
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 28 January 2009, 18:33
Oh no, bad luck Phil! I keep having to remind myself to do that cos i know i'll forget otherwise!

Took some snaps of the difference in the size of the pins, left is the 1200 pin and right is the 1500 i intended to fit:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00074.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00073-1.jpg)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 28 January 2009, 19:01
Hiya Phil,

........i got my engine back together
with the pistons barrels and heads push rod tubes ect all bolted up
then i looked down and saw the air defector plates that should have
been under the barrels before i fitted the push rod tubes...... 

Ain't that the pitts!?  This kinda thing is really common with me.  But I've learned to deal with it over the years.  Now I always break down the building process into steps.  I don't allow myself to think of the next step until the one I'm working on is done.  And if I do think of something upcoming, I make a note of it so I can forget it for the time being.

And if even if I do screw up and leave something out, I just go in and redo it (what else are you gonna do?) and chalk it up to experience knowing that its not a mistake I'll make again.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: AUTO on 28 January 2009, 19:52
Hi mike
im gettng plenty of experiance with this engine, and i hope it'll never happen
again, it's the 4th time ive had a go at building this engine,it was a running
1600 once then i decided to fit some 1641barrels and pistons and new twin port
heads as i intended to put it in my splitty it ran fine for a week or two then the
big ends started nocking
The second time i fitted new bearings and a full flow oil cooler from the pump cover
to keep things cool, that time it lasted 3 minutes before it sezed, i had been told to
block off one of the holes on the pump so the oil could travel out of the pump cover
and  round the oil cooler and yes you guest it i had blocked up the wrong one  ::)
so buy then i'd  had enough so the bus got a new engine
fast forward a couple of years and im still trying to build the bloody thing
why do we do it  :P
chris dont let it beat you you now it'll be worth it in the end
tommorows another day and all that
all the best phil 
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 28 January 2009, 20:28
I'll not let it beat me....the only bit i'm unsure about is whether the 69mm crank will fit in where the 64mm crank did??
I suppose there's only one way to find out, i'll start stripping it down tomorrow (maybe a little tonight as my workshop is my lounge) and i'll trial fit the sare crank i have to see if there are any issues.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 29 January 2009, 02:11
After a lot of reading and advice taking it turns out as it's a later case it's a universal one. So i've just ordered myself a new crankshaft and installation kit, reconditioned conrods, and all the bearings and shims i'll need. I'm determined to get this to at least a long block before i go away to work on tuesday!
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 30 January 2009, 11:51
After a lot of reading and advice taking it turns out as it's a later case it's a universal one. So i've just ordered myself a new crankshaft and installation kit, reconditioned conrods, and all the bearings and shims i'll need. I'm determined to get this to at least a long block before i go away to work on tuesday!

See, it turned out OK....

I Never remember to put the air deflector plates in...
there should be a way you can put them in Later.  ;D ;D :D :D
maybe fold up ones....   something so simple... ::) ::)
can cause so many problems....

then again, I can make a disaster out of anything

I've never seen those special oil pump nuts....

LEE

Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 30 January 2009, 12:21
Well half the parts are here now, unfortunately not the half that means i can get started just yet, i bet they'll arrive just at the end of the day too!  >:(

I've never used those self sealing nuts before but they came in that kit from eVW, surely that's what the gasket's for..
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 30 January 2009, 12:58
Hi
I've never come across that type of nut...
they do seem like a good idea, although only being able to use them once
isn't good...  maybe if they had an o ring in them...

I wonder if that was just good German engineering..??  overkill..

Gaskets usually do the sealing...

Best of luck with the project...

LEE




Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 23 February 2009, 19:43
Spent most of the time i was awake over the weekend attempting to put the engine together. Took me ages to get the gears on the crank as the first one i had sent out to me was faulty as the woodruff key recess wasn't long enough:

New crank
(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00091.jpg)

Old crank
(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00090-1.jpg)

So everytime i tried to get the timing gear on it would do this:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00089-1.jpg)

I then had that crank exchanged but no matter how i heated the gears and cooled the crank i still couldn't get everything on so eventually I gave in a paid a local engineering firm to press them on for me. I then forgot to take anymore photo's...
I had issues with the oil pump again but as i'd experienced it before i knew exactly what i had to do and commenced lightly shaving the fouling areas from the back of the case.

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00107.jpg)

Eventually I got the pump in and the barrels, pistons, and heads on and put on the first bit of tinwear. Now it's time to put the crank pulley on and i can't even get it started, it won't fit over the woodruff key  >:(

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00108.jpg)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 23 February 2009, 20:11
Hiya Chris,

Well, I do have to make this comment.................the day of buying a replacement part and bolting it in is long gone.  Seems that most all of the aftermarket parts today need some massaging to fit properly.  It's a pain, but whaddygonna do?

About your crank pulley and the woodruff key.........are you sure the woodruff key is tapped all the way in and level?  I notice that you have a universal aluminum case.  Is your crank pulley an aftermarket or OEM?  An OEM pulley should fit the crank and woodruff key firmly but nicely.  An aftermarket may or may not.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 24 February 2009, 12:32
About your crank pulley and the woodruff key.........are you sure the woodruff key is tapped all the way in and level?  I notice that you have a universal aluminum case.  Is your crank pulley an aftermarket or OEM?  An OEM pulley should fit the crank and woodruff key firmly but nicely.  An aftermarket may or may not.

The crank pulley is OEM so i think it's going to be an issue with the woodruff key itself. I'm going to try to knock it out today and see if i've left anything in the bottom of the recess and then try again, if not then i'll be down to filing down the top of the woodruff key.
I forgot to mention about having to buy a new case, the case i intended to use had been align bored too many times for my liking so now it's just sitting at the back of my shed til i can decide what to do with it.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 24 February 2009, 22:42
Hiya Chris,

I can remember having a spot of trouble with the pully fitting on the crank.  For me it turned out that I had tapped the woodruff key in just a little off level.  That was all it took to keep the pulley from sliding on.  A couple of taps and everything was fine.  May your troubles be as small.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 24 February 2009, 22:54
After a little bit (read endless hours) of adjustment today i managed to get the crank pulley on only to find that the new tinwear i had bought wouldn't fit correctly against the oil pump as it didn't have the step out required. So out came the pullers and the tin was changed over:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00110.jpg)

After that i just started trawling through the piles and piles of parts that came with the car.......god i wish i'd taken it apart myself!
I did manage to uncover the manifold i'll soon need though:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00111.jpg)

I just need to check i have the correct carb now, so i took some photo's:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00112.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00113.jpg)

Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 25 February 2009, 04:42
Hiya Chris,

That 30PICT2 was standard issue on the '69 1500 engine.

Did you check to see if the pre-heat tube on your manifold was clear?
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 25 February 2009, 11:47
Not yet, i'm going to continue to have a search through the piles of parts and then have a mass cleaning spree.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 25 February 2009, 23:16
As i've been laid up for most of the day with a dodgy back I didn't get to much done. I set the valve clearances which confused me for a bit til i realised the engine turns over anti-clockwise and put the distibutor drive in. I gave it several goes at trying to get it as close to straight across the case at TDC and left it at this:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00114.jpg)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 26 February 2009, 07:43
Hiya Chris,

Hmmmmm...........a couple of comments.

Engine turns over anti-clockwise?  The only time my engine turns over anti-clockwise is when I'm setting the valves.  Perhaps I'm reading what you wrote incorrectly but the engine should run, turn over, operate with a clockwise rotation.

You bought a new distributor drive gear, didn't you?  I've heard about these dizzy drive gears with the double cross.  One slot (as in OEM) for stock distributors and one at 90* to OEM for other distributors.  Concerning your picture..............if you have the engine at TDC as this picture is taken then your timing will be off because the dizzy drive gear is off a notch.  The engine won't care about this and you can operate the engine as it is now.  But you will have to remember (and mark your crank pulley accordingly) that your standard timing mark(s) won't work for you now when you time the engine.  But the valves will STILL need be set at the OEM TDC mark on the pulley.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 26 February 2009, 10:20
Chris,
       Er, being a recidivist, I do my valves clockwise...following engine rotation. That new style dissy drive is a doozy, but practical!

If you can't get it to line up properly for love nor money when No 1 is bang on TDC......

You might possibly have your bronze crank gear on backwards?

Hideous thought I know given what a heroic effort you've had to put in for this donk already.....

Regards
Sean
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 26 February 2009, 12:04
Turning the crank pulley anti-clockwise meant i could set the gaps in order of 1-2-3-4 (the way i'd learnt originally), but the way i started doing it (clockwise) meant i was setting the the gap on cylinder 2 when i should've been on cylinder 4.....rookie mistake.

Yeah, i bought i complete kit for the crank which included this dizzy gear, i'm tempted to root out the old gear to see if i can get it to line up any better..
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 26 February 2009, 15:18
Hiya Chris,

Turning the crank pulley anti-clockwise meant i could set the gaps in order of 1-2-3-4 (the way i'd learnt originally)

OK, that's cool.

Quote
.... but the way i started doing it (clockwise) meant i was setting the the gap on cylinder 2 when i should've been on cylinder 4.....rookie mistake.
 

Oh yeah!  I learned how to set valves doing it the reverse rotation way.  And while I've seen folks set valves by progressing the crank forward I have opted to remain with the reverse rotation method if, for no other reason, to keep from getting confused.  Besides it works well for me.

Quote
.... i'm tempted to root out the old gear to see if i can get it to line up any better.....

Are your case halves together?  If so be very careful when pulling the distributor drive gear.  It is extraordinarilly easy to lose those two distributor drive gear washers down and into the case.  They sometimes want to stick to the bottom of the drive gear but will then fall off when the drive gear is pulled up.  And (again, if your case halves are together) how will you pull the distributor drive gear?  VW had a special tool for that, but I'm guessing that you don't have that special tool.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 26 February 2009, 15:27
I have the special tool, to stop those washers coming off i put on some vaseline to stick them to the bottom of the hole. I've been hunting through the parts today for the dizzy today but the one i've found doesn't match up with whats written in the technical section. The numbers have written on the side are:

0 231 137 039
111 905 205 AA
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 26 February 2009, 15:51
Hiya Chris,

Hmmmmm.............those numbers are a mystery to me.

Yours is obviously a different distributor than the 205AA (VW 113-905-205AA) specified for the 69 AutoStick,  Even it's Bosch parts number is different.  What is most surprising to me is that the alpha suffix is the same.  I'm wondering if these two could be interchangeable.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 26 February 2009, 22:36
Did a little bit more today, i fit the dizzy and the fuel pump (although i had to do a 2 hour round trip to pick the bits up):

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00116.jpg)

Then i called it a day when i needed to go find a stud (from the dark shed at the bottom of the garden) to fit to the cylinder head for the manifold:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00117.jpg)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 27 February 2009, 01:49
Hiya Chris,

Just a hint.................pull those valve covers and take a careful look for debris inside your valve covers.  The holes for the intake manifold studs go all the way through the top of the head and into the rocker area.  If you have loosened aluminum shavings (from the threads) or just debris it will wind up on the valve springs and worse.......right around the valve guide.  Bad news!
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 27 February 2009, 02:16
Good shout, i'll have a gander in the morning.
I had a search around the web to see what i could find out about the dizzy i have. From The Old Volks Home:

Beetle 1969-1970 * 1500/1600 Manual Trans

Distributor: VW 113-905-205T, Bosch 0231 137 035 or 036
Replacement: VW 111-905-205AA, Bosch 0231 137 039
Points: 01 013
Points Replacement Plate Assy: VW 111-905-227B, Bosch 1237 110 139
Condensor: 02 007 - Note: If equipped w/AC use 02 069
Rotor: 04 033
Cap: 03 010
Parts Kit (Shims, Washers & Hardware): 059-998-211, Bosch 1237 010 007
Coil: 00 015 (Blue Coil: 00 012)
Vacuum Can: 07 024 (Replacement uses Bosch 1237 121 400)
Ignition Wires: 09 001
Spark Plug: W8AC
Timing Set At:: 0deg TDC Static or @ 800-950rpm w/strobe w/vacuum hose disconnected and plugged
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum (Advance Only): 17-19deg @ 1.3 In. Hg, 32-35deg @ 3.2 In. Hg

Doesn't really mean that much to me in the case of use-ability. ???
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 27 February 2009, 09:40
Chris,
       It's sort of an alternate fitment (for an A-S!) to the same type of engine. The only unknown is how much Vacuum the 30 Pict 2 you have pulls, being an A-S carb. In a manual car your carb is rated to work with one of these. Since they time at TDC and go to 35ish eventually I'd check it with a strobe to make sure at least it's advancing smoothly and your carb's vacuum supply to it isn't vicious enough to max advance @ 1500 rpm or some such. I'd mark your pulley in 15mm increments and check what rev's do what vacuum advance. 15mm-ish is about 10 Deg on a stock pulley outer diameter.

If all feels good and you never hear the dreaded "marbles in can"....it'll get you around at least!

HTH
Sean
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 28 February 2009, 14:01
What does the 'marbles in a can sound mean'? I've never heard of it before.

Didn't get too far yesterday, i found that the new scat fan shroud i'd bought wouldn't fit cos the internal vanes collided with the oil cooler and then i've been trying to work out this lower tinware malarky. Having only ever owned a baja before i've never had to deal with tinware and i think because they're new they just don't fit correctly.

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00120.jpg)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 28 February 2009, 15:11
Hiya Chris,

Don't sweat the tinware fitment issue too much.

I always make it a point to recondition and use the tinware when I do a rebuild.  Even with the OEM German tinware I can usually expect a bit of twisting and tweaking to get everything to fit properly.  Just take your time.  And if you run into a "there's no way in Hell this piece is gonna fit" kinda situation; my advice would be to ditch that aftermarket part in favor of a used OEM part.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 10 March 2009, 11:17

Yes, I have seen aftermarket tinware for sale recently
"Will Fit Properly"   as many people have problems
especially using an aftermarket fan shroud plus the original VW tinware..

I've had My fan shroud off many times...
sometimes it fits on neat and exact....
othertimes I have to fiddle with it a few times
before it settles into place....
so long as the fan doesn't touch the fan shroud...

I know many people have thrown the flaps away...??
I don't know why..??  and their engines are still going...

cheers

LEE


Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 10 March 2009, 12:06
Well i have a stock fanshroud, but i'm having issues fitting the lower tin to the head tin, there appears to be an inch gap where they should bolt together at the flywheel end. Unfortunately both bits of head tin and the lower tin that i have on the engine are the third party copies. My plan is to take the fanshroud back off and swap the head tin with the one stock version i have and then fit the lower tin. If the lower tin fits then it's the aftermarket head tin thats crap and needs replacing, if the lower tin still doesn't fit then it's that that's faulty and i'll see if i can get hold of some stock bits. I'll start on that tomorrow as i'm still going to be sitting out in the middle of the sea until 5 o'clock tonight.. :(
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 10 March 2009, 19:40
Hiya Chris,

Yeah, I had some very good advice from a tech working a counter in my local VW parts place (FLAPS).  Even though he sold the stuff he warned me away from aftermarket tin.  "You'll have a terrible time getting it to fit properly", he said.  "You're much better off scrounging a boneyard for used German tin and cleaning it up."  I've only used the original stuff since then.  And as I mentioned before, sometimes I do have to tweak it a bit to get it in place.  I can only imagine what kind of frustrations I'd be going through with the aftermarket stuff.

And what the devil are you doing out in the middle of the sea?
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 10 March 2009, 20:33
Well i've put up a few posts on the U.K. forums for single port tinware, we'll just see what turns up.

As for being out in the middle of the sea, it's where i work for 6 months a year (albeit 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off) on oil & gas platforms.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 11 March 2009, 01:07
Hiya Chris,

Well i've put up a few posts on the U.K. forums for single port tinware, we'll just see what turns up.

As they say in real estate, it's location, location, location.  I have had to round up a few tin pieces over the past week for my next engine build.  Most all of what I found was single port tin, mainly cylinder tin and fanshrouds and a lot of single port manifolds.  The guy who runs the boneyard says there isn't much call for the single port stuff because most folks are rebuilding their engines as dual ports

Quote
..As for being out in the middle of the sea, it's where i work for 6 months a year (albeit 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off) on oil & gas platforms.

Oh yeah!  I've seen a few shows dealing with life on those platforms.  Looks to be fascinating and just a bit scary at times.  You out in the North Sea?  What is it that you do out there in the oil & gas business?


Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 12 March 2009, 12:13
I think i've found some over here, it's got a few holes in but the guy's going to patch them up for me before he sends them.

Yeah i work out in the North Sea as an Instrument Engineer, it's maintaining and fixing control and measurement devices.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 12 March 2009, 12:52
Chris,
       Er, being a recidivist, I do my valves clockwise...following engine rotation. That new style dissy drive is a doozy, but practical!

Regards
Sean

You adjust the valves and turn the crankshaft clockwise??

I have enough problems turning it anti clockwise..//   lol

LEE

Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 15 April 2009, 20:13
After waiting ages for my tinwear to arrive and after hunting out the remaining bits i had left in the shed i started putting it together a bit more today.
I started to put the exhaust together but i'm not sure how far the tail pipes are supposed to poke out, i read in my Bentley book that there were differing lengths that these should be but the book i have is for the later beetles. Could somebody provide me some guidance on how these are fit?

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/SNC00059.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/SNC00060.jpg)

I was having a few fitment issues with the exhaust to heat exchanger (i know i need to slip the clamps on before i fit it properly, but it's coming apart again soon).

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/SNC00061.jpg)

I plan to get all my tinwear powdercoated (hence the engine coming apart once i've made sure everything fits) but I remember that someone said there were a few AS specific pieces, i.e. holes for the ATF pipes from the pump. So out the ones i list below could someone guide me on which one i should try to fit.

On these bits the only difference i can see between them is the rectangular cut out in the right hand side of the bottom piece in the picture.

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/SNC00062.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/SNC00063.jpg)

Then out of these three bits the difference i can find is the hole on the left hand side of the bottom piece.

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/SNC00064.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/SNC00065.jpg)

When i offered these bits up to the engine they look like this, but i was wondering what the pieces that sit around the heat risers fit to?

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/SNC00066.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/SNC00067.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/SNC00068.jpg)

I offered up the aftermarket tin and as expected it didn't fit at all:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/SNC00069.jpg)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 15 April 2009, 21:49
Hiya Chris,

Yeah, ain't aftermarket tin a sad affair?

About your pictures and your tin pieces................

Your front tin:  You are right, the only difference between the two is that rectangular hole.  The hole is in later tin to accomodate the air dump pieces on a doghouse fanshroud.  If you are using a doghouse fanshroud you will need the piece with the hole.  Otherwise, use the hole-less piece.

Rear tin:  The tin at the bottom of your picture is AutoStick specific.  That's the one to use.  The small extra hole allows the metal line from the oil/ATF pump to connect up with the rubber reinfoced line leading forward to the bell housing.

Preheat pipe insulation:  All of your rear tins will "fit" in this respect.  But do be aware that there is another piece (on each side of the rear tin) that completes the insulation of the preheat pipe insulation.  This piece fits in front of the pipe and screws into the cylinder tin.  Notice the capture nut just ahead of the preheat pipe?

Tailpipes:  To be honest, I don't think that there is an official standard for length.  I have always lined up my tailpipes with the rear edge of the bumper and called it good.  For what it's worth, the measurement between the muffler body and the end of my tailpipes is 23 and half cm.

Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 15 April 2009, 22:40

Preheat pipe insulation:  All of your rear tins will "fit" in this respect.  But do be aware that there is another piece (on each side of the rear tin) that completes the insulation of the preheat pipe insulation.  This piece fits in front of the pipe and screws into the cylinder tin.  Notice the capture nut just ahead of the preheat pipe?


Thanks! Wish i'd taken the thing apart in the first place, it would've made piecing everything back together a bit easier!

So these extra bits of tin that i'm missing, what do they look like? I'll see if i've got any in the piles of parts that came with the car.

As for the full kit of aftermarket tin i shelled out money for, i don't think i've used a single bit of it yet! I'm hoping that it i get all these genuine bits cleaned up and powdercoated then i shouldn't have too many fitment issues int he future.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 18 April 2009, 05:48
Chris,
       Have you get the tinware (ears) that bolt to the cylinder covers (they run sort of from the crank pulley to the exhaust port)?
I'll try and post a sticky photie of those, along with an "up close and personal" of a heat riser bit. Speaking of them, they had asbestos (in the good ol' days) rings for insulation.

Regards
Sean
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 18 April 2009, 06:12
Hiya Sean,

This little tidbit might be of interest................

In my latest engine building spree I've had to replace those asbestos rings in the preheat tin a couple of times.  Wolfsburg West has the material for this little operation so I ordered out from them.  The stuff they sent me looks exactly like asbestos.  So I zapped an e-mail down to Ron Bengery, the big kahuna at WW.  "They're not asbestos", says he.  Instead WW is using a "modern exhaust insulating product" for this application.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 18 April 2009, 06:38
Mike,
      Funnily enough..WW is the place I had bookmarked for those rings ;D . Still, like decent air con refrigerant going the way of the dodo...best to move with the times!


Regards
Sean
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 18 April 2009, 14:07
Chris,
      Little problematical trying to photo those heat riser bits when everything is fitted. Here's a page for you:
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wolfsburg_new/engine/40_hp_engine.cfm

No 36 are the seals and you can see the little tinware piece. You need a left and right side.

Here's those two other tins:

(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e210/ctefeh/MISC/Lwrtin.jpg)


HTH
Sean
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 18 April 2009, 15:12
Hiya Sean,

I notice that the engine pictured is not set up for an AS.  Do you have another VW we know nothing about?
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 18 April 2009, 20:23
Cheers for the help, i do have the 'ears' and i should have some (more) tinware bits coming soon for the preheat pipes. I'll put an order in at WW for those gasket bits.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 19 April 2009, 01:35
Mike,
      No other dubs, just that engine. That's why I've got the oil pumps, flexplate etc in the parts bin. Swapped the stock manifold with an A-S/Type 2 one locally. That was a piece of luck!

Regards
Sean
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 18 May 2009, 20:53
Just a quick question, I'm awaiting my tinware to come back from the powdercoaters (probably another week to go) and then after i've put the endfloat shims in it'll be ready to go into the back of the car. Now I've got myself the seal for the torque convertor and a new re-con flexplate to go on, what else do i need and what type (i.e. clutch)????

Also an engine building question.... I measured my endfloat last night and it came out a 1.2mm, in my Bentley book it says you're allowed within 0.07 and 0.13mm. If i use three of the largest shims the 0.36mm then i can bring it down to 0.12mm endfloat, now i know this is within tolerance but isn't it a bit close to the upper end of the acceptable limit or am i being a bit too cautious?

Oh and before i go is it best to fit the control valve before or after the engine goes in?
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 18 May 2009, 21:30
Hiya Chris,

The tinware:  Be prepared to put a few nicks and chips in that powdercoat.  I've found that, without fail, tin takes some bending and tweaking for it to fit properly.  And, yes, I am referring to original tin, not the aftermarket stuff (which is WAY worse in this respect).  But don't get too upset about it.  It's pretty much par for the course on any engine assembly.  Just knowing this before you get into it might help you avoid some of this petty damage.

The shims:  Hoo Boy!  I do all my shim measurement in inches rather than millimeters.  But here goes anyway........  Endplay is supposed to be between .003 and .006 inches.  I always aim for the lowest tolerance (.003) and am happy with anything less than .0045.  In other words, yes, aim for the low end of allowable endplay.  Get it as close to .07 mm as you can.

The control valve:  By all means, mount that sucker before you install the engine.  I also hooked up my hoses to the clutch servo and the vacuum reservoir tank at the same time.

A hint:  Leave the back end (the rear tin, the fan belt, heater hosing, ATF lines, etc.) off the engine when you install it.  This will make it a lot simpler to get the engine into the engine compartment and lined up to mate with the transaxle.  It's a bit of a bear to install the rear tin afterward but it makes engine installation a LOT easier.  And if you need any tips on actual engine installation, zap us here at VWAR.  Just got done installing mine.............

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/Bookwus1/Bug/IMG_1622.jpg)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 18 May 2009, 21:40
The problem with the shims is that i have to use the three largest ones to bring it just within tolerance, there aren't any larger ones available....Why can you only use three and why do they only go up to a certain size (or is that just over here)?

A engine installation step by step would be very handy especially with where the seals go for the front and rear as i've only every fit the baja engine which is pretty much offer it up and slide it in, then connect up the wiring.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 24 May 2009, 23:44
Am i right in thinking i need a 180mm clutch kit like this one?

http://www.machine7.com/product.php?xProd=12050&xSec=355 (http://www.machine7.com/product.php?xProd=12050&xSec=355)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 25 May 2009, 01:07
Hiya Chris,

Those parts will not do the job for an AutoStick.  What's more, the clutch assembly parts for an AutoStick are unique.  Even worse, they are, for all intents and purposes, just about unobtainable.  At least the throwout bearing is.  The clutch disc can be located without undue difficulty.  The pressure plate might be located with a lot of undue difficulty. 

I'd advise that you determine if you really need new parts inside the bellhousing.  The clutch assembly parts in an AutoStick have an amazing lifespan.  Much, much, much longer than that of their manual counterparts.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 25 May 2009, 07:55
Hmmmmm...that is quite a dilema, i don't remember seeing a throwout bearing anywhere in the bellhousing, it may be lurking about at the bottom of one of the boxes of parts that i have but i don't remember seeing it when i've been searching before. What makes the bearing different from that of a manual?
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 25 May 2009, 11:58
Hiya Chris,

I don't have a picture of one at hand but it's a completely different construction from the throwout in a manual.

And as far as putting your hands on one..................it is the Holy Grail of hard-to-find AutoStick parts.  When I rebuilt my AS transmission about four years ago it took me over six months to locate an NOS throwout bearing.  And that was mostly a matter of blind luck.  And very spendy to boot.

Right now (if you do not find your throwout bearing in that box o' parts) my recommendation would be to run through the ads on the Samba and pester anybody who is selling "AutoStick Parts" to see if they might have a used one.  There's a chap over there selling parts by the name of Mark Bolina.  He has had a lot of AS parts and he sells them in good condition at a fair price.  He'd be my first choice if I had to "go fishing".
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 25 May 2009, 13:27
Hmmmm...well i'll have to wait a while to hunt it down, i'm stuck offshore for another week, i do hope i find it if it's going to be that elusive to get a hold of.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 25 May 2009, 14:40

Hi Guys,
Well, I've been out of touch for a few days with a virus in My computer..
Your engine bay looks like it just left the factory Mike...
Are you putting hose clamps on the fresh air heating hoses??

Flaming Chris,
bolting on a VW muffler can drive You crazy...
with those heat riser pipes...
the clamps never seem to line up..lol
I've had My manifold on & off many times and once it all lined up perfectly... lol
Now I have to replace it with another one, as My heat riser pipes are rusted thru..
so, hopefully these heat risers will fit perfectly.. lol

the tail pipes... the more you push them in, the more restriction of the exhaust..
so, I would just push them in about two inches...

Most engines I see don't have the heat riser ears? and asbestos bits..

I found the easiest way to obtain autostick bits is find someone who has taken
a working gearbox etc out of a car, and buy everything from the car...
so You will have most spares...
the clutch plate is either in or out so it wears very little...
Pressure plates also seem to last forever...
I pulled one of My throwout bearings apart and filled it with lithium based Moly grease
so it should last another 30 years...

the powder coated tinware should be much better than paint when you put
it together, so You may not have any paint falling off....

cheers

LEE










[/b]
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 25 May 2009, 18:08
Hiya Lee,


Hi Guys,
Well, I've been out of touch for a few days with a virus in My computer..

Been wondering where you've been hiding out.

Quote
Your engine bay looks like it just left the factory Mike...

Well, thank you Lee.  I take that as a big compliment from a person who definitely knows "interior decorating".  And the car is at the painter's right now.  Should be taking delivery on it sometime this week.

Quote
Are you putting hose clamps on the fresh air heating hoses??

You know, I always have done that in the past.  I thought this time around I'd leave them off and see how the hosing does without them.  Whatcha' think?  

And on a similar note, I'm starting to rethink my use of hoseclamps on braided German hosing.  No, I'm not giving up on them on fuel related hosing and AS applications but I am not putting them as tight as I once did.  And I am going without them on applications like the breather hose to the air filter.  Reason?  I've had to do some hose removal while engine building.  Even without clamps those hoses (when properly fitted) are just about impossible to remove.  Someone once explained to me that the braided hose works on the same principal as those woven finger handcuffs.  His contention was that they would be secure in any application (including fuel routing) without the clamps.  I'm not taking the clamps off the fuel lines, but I will experiment a bit with the other hosing.    

Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 25 May 2009, 22:04
Well whilst thinking constantly about where i might've seen that bearing i remember some greasy lump that had been wrapped away carefully in a sock and hidden away in one of the more fragile item boxes, i have a feeling that might be it! Still not sure of the location of the pressure plate or clutch plate but you say those are easier to find???
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 25 May 2009, 22:15
Hiya Chris,

.......Still not sure of the location of the pressure plate or clutch plate but you say those are easier to find???

Well, remembering that "easier" is a relative term......................yes.

Here's a clutch disc:  http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D001%2D141%2D031

You'll have to rely on your own resources or the kindness of strangers to find an NOS pressure plate.  They MAY be out there - no guarantees.  Don't waste your time looking for an NOS throwout bearing.  Although, it just occured to me, I might know where there is one.  But even if it is there (again no guarantees) it would likely cost an arm and a leg.

Much easier, cheaper, and the quality will be just about as good if you go used.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 25 May 2009, 23:17
Well my friend's going to root around for the greased lump in a sock and send me a photo, i'll then post it up here so you can tell me if it's what i'm looking for, that won't be for a week though til he visit's..... :(
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 26 May 2009, 05:02

Hi Mike,
Yes, the braided hose doesn't really need hose clamps as its nearly impossible to pull it off..
same with stainless steel braided fuel hose I use....
next to impossible to pull off....

paper air heater tubes...
I prefer to use hose clamps but there isn't any real pressure there..??
You couls also use acable ties..
I think clamps were used originally...?

if they do come off all of your cooling air gets lost....

cheers

LEE

Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 26 May 2009, 15:57
Hiya Chris,

I did a little checking around and I believe I have located an NOS AutoStick throwout bearing.  My source is pretty sure he still has it in his inventory although he has not checked on it.  When I asked if he might want to sell it, he asked, "How much are you are offering?"

So Chris, if you want to part with some pounds sterling, you just might be able to put your hands on the Holy Grail.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 26 May 2009, 23:34
If he can wait a week (although i'm not entirely sure how that'll work out with our respective time differences) i'll let you know, or at least saturday if what i expect is in that greasy sock is the bearing.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 27 May 2009, 02:23
Hiya Chris,
 
I told him to expect some sort of response within two weeks (a fortnight?) so no rush.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 27 May 2009, 13:26
Awesome, I'll let you know when i know!
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 27 May 2009, 16:11

WOW, Mike,
that may be the only NOS throwout bearing in the world...
although I'm guessing there could be others about, that the owners don't know what they are...

the throwout bearing is in the center of the clutch pressure plate in that photo..
it has two arms - painted yellow [optional extra]
and its nothing like the standard throwout bearing...
clutch plate - if you have an original You can always get it relined...

cheers

LEE


Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 28 May 2009, 01:30
Hiya Lee,

.......that may be the only NOS throwout bearing in the world...

One never knows!

Quote
.....although I'm guessing there could be others about, that the owners don't know what they are...

Yep, and if that is the case..............and we could find them..............think about the profit to be made on that deal.


Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 28 May 2009, 13:41
Is there any chance somebody could post up photo's of each seperate component between the flexplate and the gearbox, or at least list them, then i can send those photo's onto my mate to hunt for the parts this weekend. That'll mean if i don't have the parts i can get them ordered up asap and maybe get my engine from here:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/SNC00059.jpg)

to here:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/DSC00052-1.jpg)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 28 May 2009, 15:04
Hiya Chris,

Do you have a Bentley (shop manual not the car!)?  If you do Figure 8-2 (orange cover edition) on page 16, Section 9 has everything you need for an AS bellhousing scavenger hunt.  All parts are pictured and listed.

If you do not have a Bentley (shame on you! :o) I can try to scan mine and post this diagram up later.  I'm not too sure what sort of quality I can produce with a scan, but I'll give it a shot if you need it.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 28 May 2009, 16:02
Chris,
       Here's the plate, cover and T-O bearing, a little UFO-y :
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e210/ctefeh/VWsemiautobox/vws019.jpg)

The T-O bearing is quite a hefty assembly..call it roughly 3" OD...

Here is the carrier plate on the back of the bellhousing where it all bolts to :
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e210/ctefeh/VWsemiautobox/vws022.jpg)

NB, this Bellhousing has been removed from the trans to get to the clutch components. If your trans has the bellhousing on it, chances are the whole clutch assembly is undisturbed....


HTH
Sean
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 28 May 2009, 16:31
Phew! It makes sense now...i suspect all those components are still in behind the bellhousing. I, foolishly, assumed that it would be similar to a manual and when i saw what appeared to be an empty space (with the old TC seal still there) where the engine would bolt up to i assumed a clutch would have to go in there. When i saw those arms off the bearing from Lee's photo's that had me not so sure about what was in that sock as it most definitely doesn't have 'arms' (especially not yellow ones). Now i could still be completely wrong and the the previous owner may have removed them but i'll send my friend round to have a look and get some photo's. Is there anyway you can see the clutch components from the outside?

Mike,
I do have the bentley book (albeit the later orange one which is wrong for my car) but unfortunately i don't have it out here with me, fortunately i have you guy's to pester for answer's instead!  ;)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 28 May 2009, 16:37
Hiya Chris,

The only way to take a gander at the clutch components is to take off the bellhousing.  I would not recommend doing that unless you are having a problem with something in that area.  Those components are usually in pretty acceptable shape.  Were it me, I'd take my chances of just bolting the engine up.  In any event, short of taking the bellhousing off, iot's the only way to find out if everything in there works.

Oh......and do you want that scan of the bellhousing components? 
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 28 May 2009, 19:13
Yeah i'll take the scan, it'll give me a good idea of how it goes together.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 08 June 2009, 23:08
Right now i've got back home and been and had a look I'm pretty sure those clutch components are undisturbed. Now tonight i've been out rooting through boxes trying to find those little bolts for attaching the TC to the flexplate, fortunately i've found them as i seem to remember reading they were a strange thread. Now with those 12 point heads what tool am i looking for to wind them in?
Also i got my tinware back from the powdercoaters and i'm very impressed with their work, the only problem is they got my bits mixed up with someone elses and i have a dual port piece of tinware, hopefully they'll be able to get in contact with the other guy and we'll swap our parts over before the weekend.
Now that it's coming so close to fitting the engine let me be sure that i have everything i need. I've got a new TC seal to fit (any links to threads or tips on how to fit this would be handy  :)) and i've found my TC although it needs cleaning out a bit, I've got the engine with the flexplate attached.......do i need anything else??!??!??! ???
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 08 June 2009, 23:22
Hiya Chris,

... Now with those 12 point heads what tool am i looking for to wind them in?

The problem with giving you a straight answer on this is a semantic one.  That socket is called by different names depending on where you are.  My suggestion............take one of your flexplate bolts down to your tool store and get a socket to fit.  Remember too that you'll need to torque these bolts down to 18 ft/lbs (IIRC) so you will need to mate that socket up with your torque wrench as well.

Quote
Also i got my tinware back from the powdercoaters and i'm very impressed with their work, the only problem is they got my bits mixed up with someone elses and i have a dual port piece of tinware.......

Murphy's Law in action.

Quote
Now that it's coming so close to fitting the engine let me be sure that i have everything i need. I've got a new TC seal to fit (any links to threads or tips on how to fit this would be handy  :)) and i've found my TC although it needs cleaning out a bit, I've got the engine with the flexplate attached.......do i need anything else??!??!??! ???

Insofar as the engine to bellhousing connection............I don't think so.  Do make sure that you peen the TC into place.

Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 13 June 2009, 01:31
Right, well the powdercoating place are going to re-do me the cylinder head while i'm away at work (boy did that 2 weeks off go fast) and now i'm just stuck trying to sort my end float, well more just trying to remove the flexplate but i'm sure i'll free it off eventually.

The problem with giving you a straight answer on this is a semantic one.  That socket is called by different names depending on where you are.  My suggestion............take one of your flexplate bolts down to your tool store and get a socket to fit.  Remember too that you'll need to torque these bolts down to 18 ft/lbs (IIRC) so you will need to mate that socket up with your torque wrench as well.

In the case of that socket I managed to find one in another socket set of mine that fit's quite nicely.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 13 June 2009, 02:58
Chris,
       Rattle gun or using the rope trick with a suitably long breaker bar/extension/socket are the two easiest (and least destructive!) methods. Otherwise you're up for welding long bars on pulleys and other things. There have been posts on the rope trick and other flexplate holding
fixtures.


Regards
Sean
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 13 June 2009, 13:10
I have employed the rope trick but it's not removing the bolt that causing me the issue, it's the flex plate is stuck on the four dowels at the moment and i can't get my hands in there to give it a good enough wiggle to free it.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 13 June 2009, 15:42
Hiya Chris,

Whoa there, Nellie!

You don't (as in shouldn't) take off the flexplate with your hands.  You could tweak it by doing that.

Instead, take a hard and close look at how the flexplate mates up with the crankshaft.  Do you see the "extra" holes in the flexplate that are not engaged by the crankshaft dowels?  Notice that these holes are also threaded?  Get a couple of 6mm bolts and thread them into the holes until they bottom out.  Then, alternating between bolts, turn them gently with a wrench and you will force the flexplate away from the crank.  Very nicely thought out removal system by VW.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 13 June 2009, 17:29
Ahhhhh that's very clever, i thought they were there for a slide hammer (which i don't have). I shall try that out now!
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 13 June 2009, 19:31
Well that worked a treat. This is the end float i've got:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/SNC00141.jpg)

So i then worked out i'd need two 0.3 shims and a 0.24. Just to make sure i put in two 0.3 shims and checked the end float but i got a maximum of 0.06. So i took the flexplate off and made sure it was clean in there and put in a 0.3 and the 0.24 shim and then checked the end float, this time no matter how much i pushed and pulled the bottom pulley i couldn't get a reading at all.....I'm stumped! Any ideas....
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 13 June 2009, 22:20
Uh-oh....................metrics.  I'm officially lost.

I do all my measuring in inches so I'd have to do conversions for this to make any sense to me.
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 14 June 2009, 11:27
Converted for imperial. The end float i've got is 0.0358".

So i then worked out i'd need two 0.0118" shims and a 0.0094" Just to make sure i put in two 0.0118" shims and checked the end float but i got a maximum of 0.0023". So i took the flexplate off and made sure it was clean in there and put in a 0.0118" and the 0.0094" shim and then checked the end float, this time no matter how much i pushed and pulled the bottom pulley i couldn't get a reading at all.....I'm stumped! Any ideas....
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 14 June 2009, 19:29
Hiya Chris,

OK now.  Even with that conversion I have to do a little rounding off to this scenario for my blockhead...............

You have an unshimmed endplay of .036.  You are proposing to place two .012 shims and a .010 shim in place.  That will give you a total shim of .034 and should leave endplay of .002.

Now, disregarding the fact that a final endplay of .002 is too narrow (you may have to rethink your choice of shims) you should still have a working endplay of .002 with these shims in place IF.......

1.  You measured your unshimmed endplay correctly at the start of all this

AND

2.  When measuring your shimmed endplay you have the crank tapped all the way out to the front.


About number 1............  when I measure unshimmed endplay I do it a minimum of six times.  I measure it three times when the crank is just assembled and still out of the case.  Then I measure it three times when the crank is in the case.  All of these measurements should be dead-on the same.

About number 2...........  I have a 2 lb sledge I use to tap the crank on the pulley end.  The operative word here is tap.  I want to make sure that there is some muscle behind that tap (that's the reason for the 2 pounder) but it's a very light tap, tap to make sure that the crank is at the very end of it's lateral throw without bruising the bearings or the case.   

Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: volkenstein on 15 June 2009, 02:09
Guys,
       The ubiquitous "O-ring Pinch" maybe? Mike, would you recommend fishing it out to measure base (no shims) endplay, fitting shims and re-measuring and then lastly whip both the oil seal and O-ring in to place before buttoning it all up?

Regards
Sean
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: Bookwus on 15 June 2009, 07:47
Hiya Sean,

Excellent point Sean.  That sounds like a capital idea to me. 

Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 01 October 2009, 15:38
Well it has been a long time since i gave you lot an update...

After my frustrations at tying to set the end float i finally decided it was time to open the case up once more to find out what the issue was expecting there to be some dirt or sealant in the way. Unfortunately it wasn't any of these, it would appear that the second crank i had bought (new brazillian one) wasn't really up to spec like the first one i had purchased, i measured the available space with the crank out of the engine and found that it would be impossible to ever have enough.  :(

After rooting through the endless boxes of parts i managed to find my original crank that had come out of the engine that had dropped a valve and i have sent that off to be machined, hopefully i'll have better luck when i get it back.

With regards to the remainder of the bug not much has happened, a few windows have gone in but work has now stopped for a while as i'm moving house to somewhere with a little more space. Hopefully once everythings sorted my updates should be a little more frequent!
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 16 May 2012, 20:46
Good evening chaps,

Well it's been some time but finally it's back on the road....well back on the road for short periods of time. Anywho before I move onto issues with it's driving I've taken some obligatory engine bay shots:

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/Yellow%20Beetle/BeetleEngineBay.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/Yellow%20Beetle/BeetleEngineBay2.jpg)

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/chrisjblack/Yellow%20Beetle/BeetleEngineBay3.jpg)

Now, when driving it back from the MOT (road safety test for you non-Brits) I had a few issues. I was quite happily cruising along at 60mph when it started to lose power and started back-firing if I put my foot down to speed up, eventually it slowed right down and finally cut-out. It wouldn't start immediately but after 15 minutes it would chug back into life again before doing exactly the same thing 10 minutes later. As you could imagine this made the quick hour journey last about four hours but eventually I made it home. I then took it out the next day where I didn't suffer the power loss but it did stall and not start again for a good 20 minutes. Any ideas?
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: FlamingChris on 19 May 2012, 17:31
I think it's something like the sounds of this:

http://www.vw-resource.com/vapor_lock.html (http://www.vw-resource.com/vapor_lock.html)
Title: Re: '68 Semi Auto
Post by: 68autobug on 27 June 2012, 16:27
Hi Chris
Well, what You are describing could be no fuel or no spark..
I would go first to the electrics...
it can be the condensor on the side of the distributor.. these used to be replaced and were  a throw away item back in the 50-60-70s.. along with the rotor button inside the distributor and the cap.. these were all replaced along with spark plugs/points etc..
Condensors can be very intermittant due to heat or just voltage..
I always carry a couple of spares although I don't need them now I have a pertronix kit in MY SVDA aircooled.net distributor.
You can check the fuel by taking the air filter off and pushing the cable down while looking down the carby throat.. You should see it spraying out..
another thing I just thought of... the electromagnetic fuel cutoff which sticks out from the carburetor with a wire pushed onto its terminal.. a loose wire can stop the car instantly..

cheers

LEE  Yes We have the MOT REGO check in the state of NSW in Australia every year.
        Most other states in Australia don't have an annual check at all...

(http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/50891/2959836400050767931S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2959836400050767931BqFZyp)
(http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/30187/2137281500050767931S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2137281500050767931lRSXTU)