Problems in our AS

[bErT_12]

Good day my co-autostickers...

Me and my father were having a hard time dealing with leaky torque converter seal... Since it's hard to source a new torque converter seal here in our country, we're just trying to repair it in our way... At first, we were lucky to buy a used Auto-stick transmission with a torque converter seal... What we did was we get the seal and replaced the damaged one... But after only few months of enjoying the AS bug, the same problem occurred again... A leaking ATF... So what we did, because of unavailability of the part we needed, again, we applied our own remedy... We brought the engine down, removed the seal and cut about 1 to 2 mm of its spring... And it worked... The ATF stopped from leaking...

BUT, only this evening the same problem arrived... A leaking ATF!!!

Does the rise in temperature of the ATF caused this problem?...

Another problem that my father noticed about our bug is that before, when his moving the shifter, the idling of the car increases and it suddenly normalizes after engaging to a gear... But now, it doesn't... When the shifter is moved/touched, there is no change in the idling of the car... What do you think is the source of this problem?...


Any inputs from you guys is very much appreciated... I know people from this forum may help us in our problem... TIA...         

[Bookwus]

Hiya Bert,

Like any oil based product placed under heat, ATF will tend to thin out.  When it does thin out it will creep through less-than-perfect seals.  I'm afraid that you do need a new seal.  The general rule of thumb regarding torque converter seals is that they must be replaced whenever the torque converter is removed.  If you continue to have trouble finding a torque converter seal, I have them and would be happy to send one your way for shipping and the cost of the seal.

About the idling concern......  The engine idle drops because the engine has to turn the torque converter.  In other words, it is under a small load.  That's the norm with an AutoStick.  But the fact that your engine now does not reduce idle under when in gear would suggest that it is experiencing no load.  Are you sure that the transmission is actually in gear?  Is everything connected up (like halfshafts) and the car in driveable condition when you try this?  If you let up on the brake and apply the gas gently, do you move?

[bErT_12]

Sir,

Thanks for the new infos and for offering me a torque converter seal... In case i still have trouble in looking for a new seal, i'll just send you a message... THANKS!!! Another question sir... Do you think using a Synthetic ATF (Castrol) may reduce the rise in temperature?... How can we really prevent the rise in temperature in the ATF?...

In the idling case.... It seems that you didn't get what i'm talking about...  Yes, i'm sure that the gear was engaged and it has a load... Coz it moves forward/accelerates when we hit the gas pedal... But that's not what i'm pointing out... What i'm talking about is when the shifter is touched or moved "minimally" but not totally engaging the gear, the idling of car rises... And now, it's not happening in our car but yes, the gear does engage... It's just that unusual for us not experiencing the "idle-up" feel when the shifter is touched... 

Thank you for your reply sir, it is very much appreciated...   

[Bookwus]

Hiya Bert,

.......Do you think using a Synthetic ATF (Castrol) may reduce the rise in temperature?...

Good question and one for which I do not have a pat answer.  But allow me to point out that with a Dexron ATF we have seldom seen ATF temperature problems here at VWAR.  Dexron (or any of its derivatives) was specified by VW for use in the AutoStick.  If everything else in the vehicle is in good shape there is no need for a synthetic.  Then too, you should have an ATF temperature warning light that will warn you if the ATF is too hot.  In that case the remedy is simply downshifting.  In normal use then, Dexron has successfully met all the needs of an AutoStick.

....How can we really prevent the rise in temperature in the ATF?... 

Let me ask, how do you know that the ATF is actually too hot?  Does your ATF temperature light come on?  If indeed the ATF is too hot then I would suspect that you have problems elsewhere.  Perhaps an ATF line that is partially obstructed?  More likely you may have an oil/ATF pump that is giving up the ghost.

.......when the shifter is touched or moved "minimally" but not totally engaging the gear, the idling of car rises... And now, it's not happening in our car

Bert, when you depress the gearshift knob you are disengaging the clutch.  The engine can freewheel at that point and that is why you normally would expect the engine RPMs to rise a bit.  But since you are not experiencing a rise in RPMs in this situation I can only guess that the clutch is not completely disengaging.  But if that were the case you might also expect to have difficulty in shifting. 

Anybody else out there in VWARland have any ideas on what might be causing this situation?

[volkenstein]

Bert,
     

Do you think using a Synthetic ATF (Castrol) may reduce the rise in temperature

.
That's a good question. Lee & others have found synthetics to produce leaks where a mineral based does not. To me that would suggest old car=old style oils simply because our car parts are "old school".

I'm with Mike, a rise in temperature is an indicator of something else experiencing problems. As suggested, examine pipes, hoses, ATF pipe-to-exhaust clearance & condition etc etc.

About the gearstick. Adjusted to spec? Spring still inside? Clean?

I'll have a further think.

By the way, I'd look at replacing the seal instead of the "dodgy brothers" fix. You may wind up scoring the seal surface and that would be financially unfortunate.

Regards
Volkenstein

[bErT_12]

Bookwus & Volkenstein,

Now I know that "Dexron" is the right ATF for our beloved vw's... 

Regarding with the ATF's temperature, actually we tried the procedures that you guys posted on how we could test the ATF's temperature warning light... Unfortunately, the ATF starts to leak from the torque converter maybe because the ATF reaches high temp (because we tried to feel the hoses, and it's hot!!!) and yet we're waiting for the warning light to light up (careless)... We checked out the wiring diagrams from the internet and we found out that something's wrong with our wiring... Now that the wiring is already in the right place (i guess so), we don't want to gamble again on testing the warning light if it's already working...

Does heavy traffic may cause a rise in ATF's temperature?...

Regarding with the gearstick, it's already ok now... Maybe the bug is just seeking some more attention...


I would like you guys to know that your replies were helping us a lot... I'm glad i discovered something like this... Even i'm in far country, you guys could reach out your helping hands... THANK YOU VERY MUCH...     

[volkenstein]

Bert,
     Sound like you need to go through the wiring to your ATF light as well as checking the bulb and the temp sender itself. One of them (2 on a 1970 trans) goes to 140 Degrees C and that is close to cooking the oil. Hopefully the ATF tank doesn't blow white smoke that stinks like rotten fish?

Heat sources? A fair few causes. I would start of by checking the steel pipes from the ATF tank to the oil pump. It shouldn't be bady dented or crimped shut. The other thing is to keep it away from touching the exhaust components. I know the manual shows a dinky little bracket that is supposed to hook up to the exhaust but IMHO it is better to let it hang without that particular bracket. The next hose is from the breast tin to the trans. This is the smaller diameter hose. Is it routed such that it doesn't rest on/close by the inlet manifold heat risers?

Are all of your engine tins on there? What about the two small ones that close off the rear (rear = rear of car) of the engine and bolt to the cylinder covers?

Got a standard VW thermostat? Is it hooked up or are the flaps wired open?

The only other real obvious place is mechanical heat from the engine itself, or from the gearbox and that is bad. Simple stuff first before pulling the engine or trans!

And we love piccies!!!


HTH
Volkenstein