Replacing TC Seal (A tale of Two Seals) and warning

[tmea]

In a previous post i outlined difficulties I was having after replacing my TC seal. I'm not new to this task and have done it a few times on my car and others. I always use a cross bar and PVC section to hold the seal square while I peen the edges in.

After 10 years the last seal I put in my car began to leak small amounts of ATF. The seal was a later type orange one that had served its purpose well. I ordered a replacement from CIP-1. My car being a 1968 I went ahead and ordered the older type black seal (I don't know why since the later type had worked so well). I found the seal so be somewhat odd. First, it has no markings whatsoever. Second, it had absolute no bevel or oil movement ribs molded into the sealing surface, just a wide flat contact area with the TC boss and third, it fit very, very tightly. So much so that when turning the TC by hand it was not free spinning. I chalked this up to a new seal (the extra black one I ordered was the same). To make a long story short, the seal appeared to fail due to excess friction around the TC boss. It tore and the sealing surface was marred by heat.

I have since replaced it with a later organe type. It works perfectly. I am suspicious of these 'newer black TC seals'. No markings, odd sealing survace and extremely tight fit. I have to wonder of someone is manufacturing these to a poor specification especially with respect to the sealing survace. Unfortunately I do not have the spec for an original black seal (Lee has posted them before). My unused 'new' black early seal has an ID of: 1.679". It is very much too tight.

So, until someone can provide some insight and based on my experience I recommend that if you are replacing your TC seal, use the newer type red seal. See pics below.

[68autobug]

Hi,
Yes, I believe that the sealing section of the seal should have a V in it, as I always place a bit of ATF into the V so the seal is lubricated from the start...  I wouldn't use a seal with a flat surface as it cannot be lubricated - EVER - and as You have seen has self destructed . Being very tight without a V with two surfaces isn't good.  thanks for the warning. It is Orange colored seals for Me from now on....  I have actually seen two very different looking orange seals I have taken off old gearboxes but both worked and both had the V on the inner surface..
Lee in Australia

[tmea]

Agree:

As best as I can tell these seals are new. Someone is manufacturing them now. As much as I hate to criticize someone who is supporting keeping these cars on the road however, these seals are not usable. It was greased but in the short time it takes for the grease to get squeezed out there is no ATF fed in with angled feed grooves to lubricate the contact surface. They will all fail.

Wanted to let everyone know to avoid these seals. They are for sale at all of the usual AS parts retailers. Everyone should know what the design charistics of the correct seal (black or red) are. These new seals are not a competent design.

Tom

[68autobug]

Usually when a chinese copy is made it usually looks correct but the measurements maybe incorrect. It seems that these have been designed by someone who doesn't know how a seal should work.. They haven't done their homework. Maybe they were made to a price???  but what to fit???
You ordered an early seal, Do you still get this badly made seal if a late seal is ordered.
Both Black and red seals will both fit all autosticks as far as I know. Although made differently, I don't really know why VW continued with the black seal as a replacement for early models. I've used both without any problems, and now prefer the later rad seals instead of the black early ones.
Thanks for the information on the BADLY designed seals.

Lee in Australia