Another Autostick problem

[Bookwus]

Hiya df,

Just chiming in here about the electrical.............you're in good hands with Sean on the clutch action situation.

The reason Sean recommended checking the wiring rather than the control valve is that the control valve is pretty close to being bullet-proof.  Not to say that they cannot go south, it's just more likely to be a short in the wiring.

With the guts of the car spilled all over the driveway, the easiest way to check out the electricals is first...by sight.  Take a look at obvious wear points.  For example, the spot at which the blue lead exits the bottom of the shift lever is notorious for wearing and shorting out.  Anyplace a wire passes through the body (take a look under the rear seat - driver's side....you'll see what I mean) or at gang connections (like the 15 side of your coil).  Is your solenoid free and clear of the body (this can be a problem with Bugs - I'm not sure about KGs)?  If you spot any frays or cracks, it's time to play electrician.

On the other hand, if everything looks OK, then it's time to break out the multimeter and test your lines for continuity.  That will give the final word on the OK/no OK situation for each line.

[volkenstein]

dfrommi,
           I'll have to admit..I can't remember whether I've tried that myself. I can resolve that over the weekend though . 

So..ever onwards. I've been thinking about a cheap test on the CV unit for your vacuum worries. A sticking point is that when the solenoid is at rest, the servo is partially vented because the main check valve is completing a vacuum storage circuit. When the solenoid is fired, the main check valve is pushed off one sealing place and onto another one which prevents venting and allows stored vacuum to actuate the servo...    BUT, the passages involved in venting "at rest" should be minimal..try this -
How about you just pull the power feed wire (black wire from coil through a fuse and onto the solenoid) off, then grab the hose that goes to the servo and blow into it (grab a big lungfull of air!). It should, all things being equal, resist this to a large degree. If that checks out OK...see Mike's reply above

Allrighty, back to the gearbox. I still think after watching the video everything is OK. The bladder inside the servo is thick 'n' tough, unless it's ancient and I reckon with the right amount of setting up adjustment it will play ball. Bear in mind that the vacuum will be drawing against a large surface area inside that servo.

So...get that pin out of the clutch arm. Not knowing how complete your other servo unit is, try and preserve the eyelet portion as it's a left hand thread. Once that's done you can set the servo arm measurements back to "new clutch plate specs" as per that Bentley section and bolt it back up to the G'box ready to have some fun 'n' games before you sling it back in....


HTH
Volkenstein

[dfrommi]

well when we first bought the car we thought that the problem might have just been the wire coming out of the stick shifter because you could see they tried to patch it up but did a poopy job. we fixed that up and got the control valve clicking when you try to shift. if there was an electrical problem would it still be clicking?

[Bookwus]

Hiya df,

Probably not.

The control valve solenoid is the "end of the line" electrically speaking.  If the solenoid is actuating then you have a positive electrical contact from the shift lever to the solenoid.  However, there is one more thing to check before you move on to the vacuum system.  Were I you, I'd pull the solenoid off the control valve and make sure the plunger rod is moving as it should.  Yeah, the "click" you're hearing probably indicates that all is well, but it's a good idea to get a visual confirmation.

[dfrommi]

well we got the transmission cleaned up and servo properly mounted on and gave it a nice paint job before we put it in(pictures soon to come). now i see how it should work with the servo and the clutch arm. the servo is actually pulled way out and with it adjusted properly it even brings the clutch arm away from the bell housing. installed the trans and got all the electrical hooked up today. btw there is an electrical connection near the gear shift housing. a 3 pronged one what is it for? when we first took out the trans we didn't unhook this and don't think it was hooked up in the first place. before we put the engine in we need to get weather stripping for around the engine and the engine hood. anyone know where to get this?

[Bookwus]

Hiya df,

btw there is an electrical connection near the gear shift housing. a 3 pronged one what is it for? when we first took out the trans we didn't unhook this and don't think it was hooked up in the first place. before we put the engine in we need to get weather stripping for around the engine and the engine hood. anyone know where to get this?

Hmmm...we could have a small semantics problem here.  I'm a little confused as to what you are referring to when you write "gear shift housing".  Shift lever?  Nose cone?  Something else?  df, can you further explain just where this connector is?  Colors of wire leading into and out of would be a big help.

When I need quality replacement parts I always go to Wolfsburg West.  They will cost a bit more, but they will always be of the highest quality.

[volkenstein]

dfrommi,
           Already? Flying into it .

Hate to be a handbrake but the manual is somewhat ambiguous about setting the clutch arm/servo arm relationship.

JohnR and Myself worked out a more sensible method and he reported that his beastie shifts really well.

So, you have set the servo arm measurements to spec, yes? 8mm between the boss base and start of the large hex portion, and then adjusted the eyelet out until boss base to centre of eyelet is 77mm.

Since yours is together, disconnect the servo arm from the clutch arm, undo that pinch bolt on your clutch arm and take it off the spline. Rotate the spline clockwise until you feel resistance. Drop the clutch arm on again, close to bellhousing.

Push your servo arm all the way back into your servo (if you can cap the vacuum spigot, do it so it locks the servo all the way back. Take a measurement from the servo bracket to centre of the servo arm eyelet.

From that point, rotate the clutch arm toward the servo until the clutch arm centre is 30-35mm from the centre of the eyelet (in it's retracted position). Tighten the clutch arm pinch bolt to spec (22 Ft/lbs). This will allow the T-O bearing some free movement.
JohnR settled on 30mm in the end.

DO NOT rotate the clutch arm until that pinch bolt is tightened!!!  If you do, you'll have to start all over again.

Once tightened, release the servo arm and connect it to the clutch arm and away you go. If I haven't mentioned it already, paint one side of the large hex portion of the servo arm.

One more thing to check at the CV. There is an adjustment screw, usually with a cap on it toward the firewall end. Check that you can see 2 1/2 threads exposed, that includes the starting portion of the thread. This can be tough to turn and I recommend a spare set of hands to make sure your CV rubber mounts don't tear. Also the biggest screwdriver that will fit the slot too. This is the recommended initial setting, and you adjust this to change the shift speed.


HTH
Volkenstein

[dfrommi]

yep i adjusted everything according to my manual. picture before the trans went in
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view&current=0626071654.jpg
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view&current=0626071654a.jpg
just waiting for the engine weather gasget things to arrive to put in  cant wait

[volkenstein]

Dfrommi,
           Looking Schweet!..
Call me a worry wart, but in the second photo, the servo arm is miles away from an "at rest" position. The spring inside and bladder shape should hold it all roughly centred in the housing, not fully extended like that. Another photo trick??

And a few last worthless tips ?

Clean up the gland nut ID on the engine, and the matching spigot on the torque converter & put a little Mo2 grease on both of them.

You may want to consider removing the servo side, or both, axles at the gearbox. Not sure about a KG's body shape but I had to roll the gearbox to make the servo clear the engine seal lip as I was pulling it out. As I had my axles disconnected at the time it was all OK, but I'm half thinking the CV's may run up against the engine/G'box frame horn.

DON'T use loctite on the four TC to flexplate plate bolts. Clean them up and torque to spec.


Regards
Volkenstein

[dfrommi]

so the servo shouldn't be pulled out like that? with it at the "at rest" position i really doubt the suction to the servo would be enough to pull this clutch arm.the arm is really really tough to move by hand

[volkenstein]

dfrommi,
           Not if yours is "at rest" in that fully extended position. Set the servo arm eyelet/clutch arm as I've described. Better the arms move enough to release the clutch plate, than pull from all the way out there and over-centre the T-O bearing/clutch cover!

JohnR got a brand new plate/cover and set it to spec and it's fine.

Tell you what, while you're waiting for your body seals I'll grovel under mine and attempt to pull the arm back and see how much it force it takes..(or whether I heave myself completely under the beast trying )

Volkenstein

[volkenstein]

dfrommi,
           So, knit & macrame. Here I am post visiting the House of Pain (the shed)  .

Couldn't do a thing to Klaus, so I bolted up my clutch/T-O-B/carrier plate assembly and slipped it onto the spare trans (from which it came) and whacked on the clutch arm and tightened the pinch bolt up.

As per your video, using my thumb and index finger the arm wasn't going anywhere apart from feeling the spring.

To get it to move I had to grab the back of the trans with my left hand and use the palm of my right against the clutch arm with shoulder and hips into it. It moved then, and I could definitely feel I was pushing against spring tension. And yes, a fair old heave required, and this against a clutch setup which has seen 102,000 miles.

You have to remember you have a sizeable vacuum reservoir that releases all that stored vacuum down to the servo when the gearstick is moved. With the engine off after a run, it still equates to a couple of shifts using that stored vacuum. As I also said before, the vacuum is acting on a wide surface area, not just the 11.2mm ID of your spigot!

Set it all back to as I've described and you'll be motorvating correctly.

To help Mike with the electricals, you see that switch up on the trans at the nosecone on the (LHD) drivers side in your second pic? Is that the one with funky wiring?


Enjoy
Volkenstein

[68autobug]

Hi Sean and others,

If You suck the vacuum hose to the clutch servo
it will move the clutch arm...
I could never move it from under the car Sean,
so You must be stronger than Me... lol

keep up the good work..

Lee

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

[dfrommi]

okay i loosed up the bolt on the clutch arm to let the servo come back to an at rest position and it just went to the position as if it were being vacuumed. does anyone have a picture of what it should look like ready to be installed? actually i did the measuring wrong . i tightened up the clutch arm then measured everything. so out comes the trans again and print your directions and back in it goes today with the engine ! wish me luck
::edit::
wow took me a whole 10 minutes to take the trans out my self. but here is a couple pictures of the new clutch arm settings.
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view&current=IMAG0053.jpg

and the clutch play.
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/danfrommi/karmann%20ghia/?action=view&current=IMAG0054.jpg

to better explain the "at rest position" if you take and pull the servo arm all the way out as far as it will go and lightly let go until it pops back in from the rubber. I'm guessing that is the at rest position

[volkenstein]

Dfrommi,
           I'll clarify "at rest" as I use it.

With everything disconnected, "at rest" is how the servo arm sits when the bladder is in it's normal shape. I don't pull the servo arm out and release, I push the arm in and let it spring back with some small assisstance.

With everything connected, "at rest" is where the servo arm/clutch arm sits when there is no vacuum present.

Well, I hope in your re-adjustment you made sure the starting point was the servo arm/clutch arm TOTALLY disconnected from each other, and then the pinch bolt undone and the clutch arm pulled off. Then go with my stuff.....

The positioning of everything in your first photo looks pretty good. When I bolted my clucth arm back up, the main part of the arm was pretty parallel with bellhousing rim.

Could you take a side-on shot along the face of the servo bracket?

What's going on with that bolt head connecting the servo arm to the clutch arm?? With the pin and bushes there is no slop in that connection, how's your connection on that front?

But please check everything again...wouldn't pay to have to remove the engine as well as the box next time.....


Regards
Volkenstein