Im Back

hercdriver · 09 February 2008, 16:19

Chris keep this thread going. I'm not far behind you on the same rebuild. I've come down to two choices for the rebuild. The kit you have from Mid America or a local VW guy. For me I'm leaning towards the shop. It's $600 MAM vs $900 for the shop. I've never done a rebuild, which is why I'm leaning toward the shop.

For now I have the engine out and the exhaust, generator, intake, etc off. But I'm have a hard time getting the tins off. I wanted to save them but the lower ones in particular are rusted beyond saving. I've seen the threads on the topic of new tins. With the general feeling that the new ones are not as thick. Has anyone here purchased new or old tins and learned anything useful from the experience.

Also Bookwus, the oil pump rebuild that you did. Was it any harder than a carb rebuild? Special tools?

Thanks Dave

Bookwus · 09 February 2008, 19:57

Hiya Dave,

Be really careful with low estimates for as rebuild. It's often said that the (good) parts alone will run more than that. When a shop gives you a low bid, you can almost count on the fact that they have to cut corners somewhere. The old story of you get what you pay for.

Me? Were I going to do another engine, I would go one of two routes. 1. I would buy a complete brand new Mexican longblock and retro fit an AS oil/ATF pump, or 2. I would buy a rebuilt engine from Boston Bob. Bob's engine comes with a rebuilt AS pump already installed. Price for both? About the same.

Insofar as rebuilding the oil/ATF pump.........it's really dirt simple. Order out the seals and gaskets (it's actually a kit) from eVW and just slap em in the old pump. You're good to go.

Chris the Eagle · 10 February 2008, 01:51

Most of the tin on my engine was in ok shape. Some surface rust on a couple of pieces, but I did find that the front engine tin, (between the engine and firewall) was twisted. Badly. I have some experience with sheet metal work and I plan on trying to create my own replacement. The engine tin kits can be expensive, so I try to fix and reuse what I can. Dave we may be helping each other out along the way. Good Luck

68autobug · 10 February 2008, 12:32

the front plate is very easy to find...
especially in dry areas...
although there were a lot of different ones used..
I have a few and they are all different...

You could use an early one and cut the hole out for the oil cooler
air...

My son and I have plenty of used spares...
original is much better than reproduction ones...

I just coated all my tinware with a few coats of Fish Oil
then painted with a few coats of black again...
so they shouldn't ever rust..

cheers'

Lee

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

hercdriver · 21 February 2008, 00:06

Chris,

I finally decided to have the local VW guy do my engine for several reasons. First I've never done a complete rebuild. I also have limited space in my unheated garage (not fun in February). No bench and few tools outside of the craftsman set my wife bought me a few years ago.

Another reason was that the guy that is doing the rebuild, does about ten of these a month(Jim's Custom VW's in Ohio). The mistakes he's made before are the very ones that I want to avoid and I'm willing to pay a premium for that knowledge. My hat is off to you and would love to see more posts on your progress.

The down side for me is the heads and crank will be reused after being sent to a machine shop. It was a compromise I was willing to make after Jim said that it should work well in a stock engine that is brought back into normal specs.

Dave

hercdriver · 21 February 2008, 00:16

Lee,

Many of the tins were lost to many years of salty winter roads in Pennsylvania. The bottom tins were especially bad. The bad tins will all be replaced with new ones. I know they are not as thick as the original ones, but for price they can't be beat. I will also be avoiding winter driving, so I'm not as concerned about rusting out thinner sheet metal.

The trick you used with the fish oil. Does the tin have to be taken down to bare metal? And are you having any issues with the paint adhering to the metal?

Dave

Bookwus · 21 February 2008, 05:01

Hiya Dave,

I'll let Lee fill you in on the Fishoil business.

From what I can determine Fishoil is an Australian product or a product which is available in Australia. Doesn't seem to be any of the stuff here in the States. I have heard of folks here in the USA coating the bottom of their vehicles with chain saw oil during the winter. VW used a compound called Waxoyl on the bottom of their products. Waxoyl is still available. Buy a gallon and get a pump with it.

However, before using any of these types of protectants it is a good idea to a quality job of painting. Use a zinc rich metal etching compound. I use Metal Ready by Restomotive (it is also part of their three step program when applying POR-15. Do you know about that stuff?) and follow that with a couple of coats of primer and at least three coats of color. Sanding between coats if necessary. This way I know the metal is sealed before even getting to the protectant.

68autobug · 21 February 2008, 05:34

I don't think they are worn enough to cause any problems....

I had My case line bored and rebuilt by a VW Mechanic...

I just had the heads off, and if i have any problems further down the road,
I will replace the heads with New complete units...

I was reading about the heads etc recently,
and it said that single port heads never crack between the plugs and the valves
where twin ports can and do...
My 1968 beetle has 10 mm head studs... [it also has case savers]
these were replaced by VW around 1970 [from memory] with 8mm head studs and case savers
so the 8mm studs can expand and contract much better then the 10mm ones...

Lee

Chris the Eagle · 21 February 2008, 05:42

Im glad that you found a route that best suited you Dave. I will try to keep all up to date on my progress. Midterms are going to eat up my time, so it will be slow. If your mechanic throws any hints or interesting information, please send it along!!

I have never rebuilt a VW engine before, but a 350 chevy had way more parts. I also found a tool set that I really like. Gearwrench make a racheting open-closed wrench that works great for those hard to reach places on the VW. I bought a box set that had 7mm-19mm for less than $75. They work for me. I am also curious about the fishoil. My boss said that he uses the stuff almost like bondo to fill in cracks on all types of rusty surfaces. I haven't seen any here in Mississippi other than his stash.

Bookwus · 21 February 2008, 17:07

Hiya Chris,

FishOil in Mississippi?

That is interesting. You might want to ask him where he landed that stuff in the States. As I mentioned before, I haven't seen any for sale here anywhere.

By the way Chris, you might want to check on Way Out Salvage for any missing tinware. I have dealt with them before and they were responsive and reasonable. And the quality of the item was first rate. They're down in Kingston, Arkansas. Take a look at http://www.wayoutsalvage.com/

68autobug · 22 February 2008, 10:05

Hi Guys,
from what I've read lately, I would replace the heads with new ones
if doing an engine up... if i could afford it moneywise..
New valve seats, new valves, new springs etc...

although if something happens to a head..
though are easy to remove and install...

FISH OIL...
Fish oil is getting better..
I bought a new pressure pack tin last week..
and it dries within a day or two...
even with temps in the high 20C..

Fish oil sticks to anything... including Rusted steel...
it coats the steel, and goes into every crack etc...
then it goes hard...
and because no air can get at the metal - No Rust...

I painted over the fishoil approx 12 months after it was applied...
with KillRust epoxy paint with a brush.
approx 12 months later... I have sprayed under the fenders and chassis
with silver metallic paint...
and a few weeks later applied another spray coat of fish oil...

Luckily We don't have the rust problems You have in the Colder climates..
The body and chassis rust I've seen in books & magazines from the UK..
scares the hell out of Me....
Many of the beetles over there, you could possibly pull the fenders off , bolts and all... as there is nothing but rust holding them on....

I can honestly say, I've never seen a rust hole in a beetle fender in Australia..
then again over the years most beetles have their fenders replaced...

split windshield type 2 transporters do rust badly over here...
from the bottom up....

A Beetle owner in the UK told Me his mechanic told Him to use the old engine oil to spray under the chassis of his beetle...
very messy.. but no rust...

cheers

Lee

hercdriver · 23 February 2008, 05:39

Lee,

Is Fish Oil a product name or is it really oil from a fish?

68autobug · 23 February 2008, 13:53

well Hercdriver

I believe it does contain fish oil...
it does smell like fish....

back in the 60s when i first started using fish oil...
it was made especially for boats....
I suppose someone found a dead fish stopped rust on a boat??...
it used to take a month or more to dry..
and smelt like fish all that time...
I'm lucky that i never found it offensive...

Nowadays its called "Deodorised fish oil" and it does also contain rust inhibitors..
and it dries in a few days, depending on the weather [temperature]
I usually only use it in the summer...
You cannot use it on wet surfaces...
but it loves dry rusted steel, painted surfaces, just about anything..
it sticks to just about everything...

Someone did mention that someone used it like putty
to fill up gaps... well it looks and runs just like oil....
but You can fill up small gaps especially if they are like a pocket
You just fill the pocket up and no water can enter...

Lee