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Engine removal / reinstall procedure

Started by bowlingbrad, 20 December 2009, 13:58

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Bookwus

Hiya Brad,

I took a look at all three of the links you provided above.  There's good news there.  Also a bit of confusion.

The confusion:  What these folks have for sale is not the same in terms of comprability.  Strictly is selling some pretty wild performance and even most of their standard stuff is, well, a little more than just standard.  They do have low price on a 1600 rebuilt (rebuilt as in not new from Mexico) longblock at $795.  CIP1 is showing you a 1776 rebuilt longblock.  The 1776 uses bigger diameter pistons and cylinders than a 1600.  As a result you get more "pep in your step".  But again this is rebuilt and not new.  And it has a $2800 price tag to boot.

Good news:  And on the other hand, you have a brand new Mexican longblock from CBPerformance.  And at $1800 I'd say you have found a winner.  Shipping that beast to Chicago will be spendy (figure around $125 to $150),  But CBPerformance seems to be a good company to deal with.  I have done business with them and was favorably impressed with their products and their service.
Mike

1970 AS Bug

bowlingbrad

Thanks Mike!

I don't know how anyone got anything figured out before this 'internet' thing came along!

So,
1.  Should I go up to a 1776 from CB (if they have one)?
2.  Will all of my other parts from my existing engine fit on either the 1600 or 1776?
3.  What additional bits will I definitely need?
4.  What bits must I clean/reuse/repaint for autostick?
5.  (Please forgive more ignorance) Do I need to request anything special in order to use my 34PICT3?

Thanks again!

bowlingbrad


Bookwus

Hiya Brad,

We'll try these in order..................

1.  Purely your choice.  Some pros and cons...........

A 1776 can be built to a number of different specs.  In other words one 1776 is not necessarily another 1776.  Selection of heads and carburetion and camshafts can make major differences in how these engines will perform.  Most 1776s will fall into an AutoStick's comfort zone insofar as handling horsepower goes.  Any (well almost any) 1776 will be a rebuild; not new. You are wise to be thinking of CBP as a seller rather than CIP1.  CIP1 is a "sometimes they're OK; sometimes they're not" kinda company.  I (and others) have had trouble with CIP1 making good when a purchase has gone south.  You definitely want to avoid that when buying and engine if at all possible.

2.  Everything off your present engine will fit on a 1600 and probably on a 1776.  Notice above that I mentioned carburetion as a variable in building a 1776.  A 34PICT3 will run a 1776 but it will need some modifcation (new jetting).  All Mexican longblock 1600s are set up as dual ports so everything you have would just be a straight swap-over to the new engine.

3.  Any longblock you buy (new or used) will come set up for a manual transmission.  Typically, that will mean a standard oil pump and a flywheel.  You will have to change both of these items out to convert the engine to use with an AutoStick.  Not technically challenging at all and we can give you step-by-steps here for each procedure.  You will need a couple of special tools but they are not spendy and can be had for $10 or $12.

4.  Go back and look at that picture that Aircooled.net was running.  That is a longblock.  You will need to clean and paint everything else.  The cleaning is the "YUCK!" part of engine rebuilding, but it does need to be done and done well.  You new engine's life with respect to cooling will depend on the job you do in getting your old parts ready.  Honest Brad, the cleaning and painting stage of engine rebuilding is probably better than 50% of the entire job.

5.  As I mentioned before, if you plan to use your 34PICT3 atop a new 1776 you are looking at doing some rejetting.  That 1776 is going to be a bit thirstier than the 1600 the 34PICT was designed for.  Of course, if you go with a 1600 it will be a straight swap.

6.  MOFOCO:  I have heard quite a bit about MOFOCO.  Darby (Dr Darby over on TS) is a guy I have chatted with for going on 10 years now.  He really knows his stuff, both manual and AutoStick.  He says MOFOCO has always done a good and conscientious job by him.  On the other hand, I have heard from others who have had a few bones to pick with MOFOCO.  Me?  I really dunno; just hearsay. 

But this entry does make me think...............    Brad, you might want to contact Darby.  He could be of real help in putting your project together.  Nothing like having hands-on help. 

   

Mike

1970 AS Bug

bowlingbrad

Awesome Mike.
Thanks so much for taking the time to help out.
I sent a pm to Darby.  Waiting to hear back.

davebuckholts

first post!  Hey guys.

Best of luck Brad on the engine search.  I'm pulling the engine out of my 68 AS ghia today.  need to replace the front main seal.  I'll take some pics and post them in a few days.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you all!

Dave Buckholts

Bookwus

Hiya Dave,

Welcome to the AutoStick ward of the VW Mental Health Hospital.

Pictures are always appreciated!  Looking forward to seeing that 68 of yours.
Mike

1970 AS Bug

bowlingbrad

Mike, I feel like a broken record.  THANKS AGAIN...

I just got a msg back from Darby:

QuoteI've used Mofoco for 30 years and they have always been very fair with me. If I was to build an engine for you it would be built around Mofoco parts and machine shop. My suggestion for an autostick car would be 1776 with stock cam and stock or 041 heads. Do anything off base with the cam and the carb will hate it, it will throw off the vacuum signals and the A/S will suffer. Go anything bigger and the clutch will not handle the power.

Now, I think I might be closer to selecting a longblock than I realize.

Bookwus

Hiya Dave,

Is your 12 mm vacuum hose from the intake manifold to the control valve wire reinforced?  If not, it should be.
Mike

1970 AS Bug

bowlingbrad

Sorry but I am going to ask that we get back on topic.  Dave, please start a new thread so that you can get much better responses.

Now, I have been on the samba and a member (nsracing) is posting that he has a 1776 available.  I have never heard anything (good or bad) about this member.  Does anyone have any comments?  I have pm'd him asking for more information.  I will post when I get a response.  I am edging towards cb or aircooled.

Thanks,
Brad

Bookwus

#25
Hiya Brad,

I do not know nsracing and have not heard of any products from that shop.  So, no comment on the quality of his product.

But I would offer this.............  buying a 1600 usually offers economy of scale value.  That is to say, even a very well built 1600 will cost significantly less than any performance engine, even a mild one.  That's because of two factors.  The marketplace is awash in parts suitable for a 1600 rebuild and those parts are relatively cheap.  Definitely not the case for performance parts.  For example a set of Mahle pistons and cylinders for a 1600 will cost you about $175.  Performance cylinders and pistons (a set of 90.5s for a 1776) will cost you around $325.  

Then too a performance engine usually requires more "hands on" time from the assembler.  This comes from tailoring the fit of the parts properly and speding extra time calculating the geometry of the engine.

Consequently, those extra horses you get with a performance engine do cost a bunch'a extra bucks.  And as is often said of engines, you can have three attributes for an engine:  performance, reliability, and economy.  Choose two.  

Mike

1970 AS Bug

bowlingbrad

Thanks Mike,

I definitely do not need performance.  The Autostick mechanicals really wont handle it.  So, you think a 1600 would do just fine?

Bookwus

Hiya Brad,

Hmmmmm.............I definitely do not want to come off as being anti-performance.  I'm not.  Matter of fact, at the moment I'm seriously considering building a 1776 for my Bus. 

The real point I was trying to make is that extra horsepower is more expensive per unit than standard horsepower.  For example, a very rough example, suppose a 1600 rebuild cost you $1600.  That's $1.00 for each cubic centimeter.  Say a 1776 rebuild costs $2400 a difference from the standard of $800.  That means that those 176 extra cubic centimeters each cost about $4.50.  Spendy but worth it if you have the use for the 176.

And do know that an AutoStick in good health will handle most 1776 builds.  We just don't want to see anything much over 90 hp pushing that AS tranny and clutch components.

Now, on the other hand, a fresh 1600 will give you surprising performance.  I rebuilt the 1600 in my AS (actually converted it back to its original singleport configuration from a dualport) and the difference between "then" and "now" is most gratifying.  Personally, I wouldn't run anything else but a 1600 in my AutoStick.
Mike

1970 AS Bug

hercdriver

Quote from: Bookwus on 28 December 2009, 01:06
I rebuilt the 1600 in my AS (actually converted it back to its original singleport configuration from a dualport) and the difference between "then" and "now" is most gratifying.

Bookwus,

Why the switch back to the singleport? On the surface it would seem a performance step backwards. The new performance you've noticed, is it due the singleport? or maybe just a better built/ newer engine?
1973 AS Super "Otto"
1975 Westy "Julius"

Bookwus

Hiya Dave,

It was the stock-Nazi part of my personality coming to the forefront.

My 1970 Bug originally came with a singleport engine and I wanted to take the engine back to OEM (sort-of) condition.  The cooling system remains doghouse style (with the offset oil cooler) to insure that number three stays relatively cool.  I'm in the process of rebuilding an OEM Pierburg fuel pump and will change out my SVDA to a vacuum only 205T.  Here's what it looks like now.........

Mike

1970 AS Bug