Clutch issues again

[Topdop]

Hi.

I have since a long time back had problems shifting gear when the engine is turned on. I like everyone else thought that this was a problem with leakage, so after schanging the entire vaccume system I am now sure that the vaccume servo pulls the clutch arm back all the way when the gearstick is moved. However the problem is still there I cant shift!!! Its like the clutch never engages even thought the arm is moved all the way back. What could be the problem here. All help would be greatly appreciated. Im loosing hope here people.

[bookwus]

Hiya Top,

I think you have either one of two possible problems.

Number one:  you need to adjust your clutch.  That procedure is outlined in the Bentley.  If your clutch has already been adjusted all the way out, then it will be time for a new clutch assembly.

Number two:  your torque converter has given up the ghost and will need to be replaced.

Were it me, I'd start by attempting to adjust the clutch.  Easiest and cheapest possible fix.  If that does not solve your problem then you are off to more serious stuff.

Mike

1970 AS Bug

[Topdop]

Hi again.

I have already adjusted the clutch all the way back so that shouldnt be the problem. I can start the engine in any gear and drive like that, but i cant shift when the engine is on,. This must mean that the torq converter is ok since i can stand still in a gear and then just drive away. So it must be the clutch plate then... hmmm, I was wondering, if the clutch plate has done its part for this life time wouldnt the effect be the opposite? I mean wouldnt it be so that i can shift into any gear with the engine on, but the car not move an inch?

[bookwus]

Hiya Top,

Yes, I would agree with you on the action of a "shot" clutch assembly.

Sorry, but I didn't quite realize your total situation before my last answer.  Something does come to mind after reading your last post though..............

You mentioned that you can start your car in any gear.  The nuetral safety switch should prevent that from happening.  You should only be able to start in nuetral.  Could the switch be malfunctioning or working "backwards" somehow?  That would account for the symptoms you are experiencing.  Able to start in any gear and unable to shift.

Mike

1970 AS Bug

[danny]

i agree that the auto switch is not working correctly, but i dont think this is the cause of the problem since the clutch arm is moving when the gear stick is touched. I would be looking towards the pressure plate, particuarly the springing mechanism, there is surely something wrong here. either it has become weak or maybe it was never installed correctly.

[Topdop]

Thank you for all your answers... Yes I agree there there has to be some problem with the switch that makes it possible for me to start the car in any gear, that is however not the issu that is affecting the clutch mekanism... Ive spoken with a buddy of mine whos a car mechanic adn we both agree that is has to be the preassure plate as you said. Now for the next question, can i use a preassure plate from a standard stick shift or do i have to go looking for one for an auto bug? Btw my car is a '68

One again thanks for all the help so far...

[68AutoBug]

Topdop,
All the Auto stick parts were especially designed for it.
I have heard that a normal clutch plate can be modified to fit, but everything else is AutoStick ONLY...  
The Fishel & Sachs VW pressure plate number is 001 141 025  
Its a diaphram spring pressure plate.
Your problem has Me thinking and looking thru the manuals I have...
I haven't found any answers yet...  Doesn't the pressure plate have to keep pressure on the clutch plate to drive....??
I thought it would be slipping if there was NO pressure from the pressure plate.. as it puts pressure on the clutch plate... to drive...
You can drive so they both Must be working OK....
Are You sure You adjusted the clutch throwout arm correctly??
It sounds like You may have adjusted the incorrect way, as everything is working, EXCEPT You can't put it in Gear with the engine going....
No, it has come to Me now, that does mean that the pressure plate ISN'T working correctly ....  Its keeping pressure on the clutch etc, but You cannot push it IN Far enough to work correctly....

I hope You can source a good used one...  AutoStick gearboxes with clutch inside, are discarded over here, as only the IRS chassis are wanted... They are the only standard IRS chassis We had in Australia excepting the 1976 beetle... all others were swing axle...
To get at the clutch plate, You have to take the bottom of the gearbox off to get at the bolts that hold the clutch housing onto the gearbox..
Best of Luck..

Lee Noonan - 68AutoBug - Australia -

[Topdop]

Thank you for spending time studying the problem. I have now searched all of sweden to find a preasure plate, sorry to say without any luck. Since my beatle is a roadster (rebuilt sometime in the 80's and to my knowlege the only saxomatic roadster in sweden) i am considering switching the whole chassi so that i get one with a working gearbox and engine. I hoped that the new chassi would be on from an old scraped saxomatic but i cant seem to find one. The only solution i see i switching to manual, unless anyone here has a preasure plate lying around and is willing to send it to me in Sweden.

Once again Thank you for all your help.

[bookwus]

Hiya Top,

Have you thought of doing business with any of the online VW junkyards or parts houses over here in the States?  It might be a little spendy to ship a pressure plate all the way over to Sweden, but that would cost a lot less than an outright conversion to a manual.

Mike

1970 AS Bug

[68AutoBug]

Hi Mike,
Were SAXOMATS sold in the USA??
I had never heard of a saxomat until I joined this forum..

Maybe You could use an AutoStick chassis complete instead of a manual??
although they are complicated compared to a manual...
Have You tried Germany for a pressure plate??

regards
Lee

[Topdop]

Ive checked out a couple of suppliers in the states and found one carrying a preasure plate. 99$ abit pricy but doable, the only problem is that theyre out of stock. Ive checked back with them a couple of times in the last month but they still dont have it in stock.

Getting ahold of a saxomat chassi is probably as hard as finding a preasure plate. I could purchase a complete saxomat original beatle here for around 400-500$ but that would meen having to scrap an original body (not somthing that i want to do).

I was thinking abit more about it yesterday, could it be possible that an ATF-leakage could be causing the problem or somthing else like that. Not that i have noticed any leakage but i did switch the engine and torqueconverter a while back (the engine and torque converter worked like a charme in the beatle that was heading for the scrap yard).

Ive tried finding spare parts in germany but i cant find anything that has to do with a saxomat

Ive read somwhere that it is possible to use a standard cluthplate if it was modified abit in an AS, wouldnt it be possible to do the same with a preasure plate?

[bookwus]

Hiya Lee,

I understand your confusion.  But basically this is just a problem with semantics.  In Europe any of the "auto shift" cars can be referred to as Saxomats.  This is especially true in Scandanavia.  So, what you and I would call an AutoStick is often referred to as a Saxomat.  Not to be confused with what WE call a Saxomat - the early 60s, purely mechanical "autoshift" system.

In all the research I've done it appears that the Saxomat was never exported to the USA.  However, I've been told time and again (by people who should know) that Saxomats were available here in the States in the early sixties.  I have never seen an example of such a car (either in person or referenced) so, for me, the jury's still out.

Hiya Top,

Were I you, I'd make sure that your clutch is the source of your problem.  If so, I'd be glad to help find a source for the pressure plate here in the states.  Zap me a p-mail if I can be of assistance.

[STROHMA]

you should check you neutral safety switch. If the tran. shifts with the engine off thats normal. Neutarl safety switch will hold out the clutch servo while you move from gears across neutral so it doesn't engage during shifting. If the switch is bad or wired backwards then this would cause shifting problems. If you can start in gear the switch isn't working right. Does it satart in neutral? maybe the switch is burnt out.

[Topdop]

Strohma: Im now aware that the switch isnt working correctly, since i am able to start the car in any gear. But let me just check if i got this right. I jacked the car up and started it in neutral ( no probems here). I then move the shifter (trying to engage a gear), at the same time my friend checks out the servo movement. We came to the conclusion that every time the shifter is moved the slutch arm is pulled back (but I still cant push it all the way in gear). This would be normal right? But what you saying is that even though the clutch arm and servo are moving this isnt enough if the switch isnt working? If this is the case where can i get my hands on a new switch?

[danny]

the switch will not prevent you changing gear if the clutch arm is moving (provided the pressure plate mechanism is working),