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Technical => Technical => Topic started by: Cobey on June 18, 2006, 11:23:10 PM

Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: Cobey on June 18, 2006, 11:23:10 PM
Hey all!  Okay, I am just about ready to swap in the spare trans I have for Edel.  A little background.  The trans came from an early 70 something Ghia that was smashed to bits.  I can't remember the year, but, it was prior to the change of the bumpers, as it still had the same style as my '68 Ghia.  So, here come the questions:

1.) Should the nose cones be different between the two, can I just unbolt and swap them?

2.) The points where the axels connecto to the trans have been exposed since I got it.  It was stored indoors, but is there anything I need to do there before popping it in?

3.) Anything I should inspect/check on the trans before I put it in?  I have a spare seal for behind the torque converter (on the trans side), So I'll replace that since I am already there.

4.) The servo with the spare trans seems to move a lot more than the servo on the original.  What I mean is, I can pull the lever in and out of it a lot further.  Can anything be made of this, is it nothing to worry over, or is the servo on the original trans perhaps the cause of grinding noise in R2?  (Note, the original servo is still connected to the vac tank, so perhaps there is still vac there that is keeping me from moving the arm much?)

5.) I got the flex plate and the torque converter unbolted from one another with no problem, but, anyone have tips in lining them up again during reinstall?

Thanks folks!  Any other tips, hints, or advice are gladly accepted.
Title: Some answers...
Post by: volkenstein on June 19, 2006, 11:05:12 AM
Cobey,

1. Shouldn't be any different.

2. Run a bolt through all the holes to clean 'em out. Check for rust and  
   clean (if you dare :lol:  That Mo2 grease is filthy stuff...) Check the
   condition of the caps in the centre of the two flanges.

3. I think you'll find you have two heat switches on the '70 box, and only
   one on your '72. That'll mean some wiring funnies......
   It should have an early seal (check though....)
   May as well check the condition of the three trans/engine mounts
   Change the oil? Up to you....

4. Dunno...It may be worth your while seperating the bellhousing's and
   checking the condition of both clutches. And you can dismantle both
   servo's to check the diaphragm. And if you like make a single good
   bellhousing/servo assembly out of both.
   The vac hookup may make a difference to movement, as the air
   travelling back from the servo has a tiny escape hole in the control
   valve. Have a friend push up on the CV diaphragm while you try
   moving the arm again and see if this makes a difference.

5. Should make no difference. From what I've seen the flexplate is
   balanced on it's own. I'll check my spare converter for balance weights
   or signs of drilling. Now may be a good time to check crank end play.


HTH
Volkenstein
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: STROHMA on June 19, 2006, 12:30:39 PM
When I put mine back together the only aligning I had to do was with the clutch pressure plate.
I had two torque converters and flex plates I saw no weights or drill outs for balancing.

On a related question (not meaning to take your thread) I don't have the temperature switch in my transmission.  And I can't find a part number for one. Does anyone know if the trans was plugged at this point or can you remove the temp switch without loosing oil? And does anyone have a spare switch I could maybe get?
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: Cobey on June 19, 2006, 05:30:47 PM
Thanks Volks!

3.) I am pretty sure there are two heat switches on both transmissions, so no worries there I don't think.  The biggest difference I noticed was that the original has a drain plug for the oil and the spare doesn't.  Makes doing the oil change a bit of a pain, and, have to hope RTV will make a good enough seal.  I did note that the spare trans has the late model seal.  (Glad I have both types on hand.)

4.) I hadn't planned on taking the bellhousing off for the clutch inspection, but may consider it now.  I have a servo rebuild kit as well.  I am thinking I will use the servo that is already on the spare trans as, in theory, it is already adjusted properly for the clutch.

5.) I don't understand your response.  The flex plate bolts to the torque converter, yes?  So, somehow, you have to line the two up to pass the bolt through, right?  You hand turn the motor to get the flex plate postion, but how about the TC?  Is there something you can poke at on it to get it to move?



Strohma - Are you sure you don't have a switch?  I noted there are 4 switches total on my spare.  Two are on the driver's side near the front (front of car) and the other two are on the passenger side at the rear, mounting the same way as the starter.
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: STROHMA on June 19, 2006, 08:17:39 PM
Cobey, I was able to turn the motor until the screws lined up didn't take long.

As far as the switches I have the switches drivers side by the nose cone. But on the passenger side by the starter I have two embosses and no switches. Unfortunately I didn't know about these switches when the trans was out now I need to try to get at least one and put it in. I just can't see if its plugged or what size the whole is. CIP1 shows a couple different temp. switches of different sizes.
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: Cobey on June 19, 2006, 10:02:05 PM
Hmmm.  I'll take the switches out of mine to see what is up there and let you know.  :)
Title: Ahhhh....
Post by: volkenstein on June 20, 2006, 12:39:20 AM
Cobey,
         I'm with you now...

Just leave the starter out initially and move the torque converter with a screwdriver or somesuch via the starter ring gear......


Enjoy
Volkenstein
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: 68AutoBug on June 20, 2006, 02:36:09 AM
Hi Folks,
Keep forgetting to check on here..
The later model boxes only have one temperature switch, as VW found it didn't need one for the lower gear, only in Drive 2....

You could plug the holes...
Those switches are about the only things I didn't pull apart...
The changeover date for the torque converter oil seals is in 1970
at chassis number 110 2385 384>

I've had My engine in and out probably 6-8 times .....
as I'm not a Mechanic I tend to find problems with things...
I can't remember ever having trouble putting the screws into the flexplate
My starter motor has been in the car for about 10 years...
Maybe I align the torque converter first???
before replacing the engine... but I've never had any trouble...
Must be the only thing.... lol...

cheers

Lee Noonan  
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: 68AutoBug on June 20, 2006, 02:40:05 AM

One thing I have never done....
is test the hot ATF switches by shorting them out to ground...
I also have an extra lamp in the dash...
I put an ATF light in My Speedo as it is a KMH speedo from a Non AutoStick beetle....   Now I find the odometer doesn't work....
Speedo works fine....  

Lee Noonan


[/b]
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: STROHMA on June 20, 2006, 12:19:45 PM
I've had to add a light in the dash also. My bug started out as a non Autostick. I'd like to put a temp switch in just for piecs of mind. I keep finding all these little things From putting pieces together everytime I drive it. I'm curious if the tranny fluid is heating up or not.
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: Cobey on June 23, 2006, 07:07:53 AM
Okay, so, if I roll the trans on it's side, and when I roll is back upright I find a  small pool of hypoid oil, that is a bad thing, yes?
Title: uh oh...
Post by: volkenstein on June 23, 2006, 01:59:43 PM
Cobey,
         No, you shouldn't have a hypoid pool. Unless there is something loose, sounds like you've got bad drive flange seals. Unfortunately they are in the pinion adjusters if it's them.

Where was the pool? I could see the hockey stick seal/bushes leaking easily enough.


Volkenstein
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: Cobey on June 23, 2006, 02:18:53 PM
It's going to be the flange seals.  The pool was right around it, and il was on the round bit (sorry, can't remember the name) that the CV joint bolts too.

Are the flange seals the same as a manual trans?
Title: Don't know.....
Post by: volkenstein on June 24, 2006, 01:09:50 AM
Cobey,
         That's the $64000 question. I don't know as I haven't got that far stripping my own spare trans.
The small plastic caps are the same.
I reckon you should call German Transaxle or Weddle........


Regards
Volkenstein
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: Cobey on June 24, 2006, 01:24:12 AM
Nuts.  Well, worst case, I use the ones from the blown trans.  Not ideal, but...
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: 68AutoBug on June 24, 2006, 02:37:14 AM

I believe those small round plasic caps or seals are the same as the manual transmission...  I had to renew one of mine....
and I had renewed it before... so I don't know why it leaked...
there aren't expensive....
to get the old ones out You push a screwdriver thu them and pop them out...
so they cannot be re-used....

Best of Luck

Lee  
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: Cobey on June 24, 2006, 06:26:22 PM
Well, I;ve had a little luck.  After cleaning it all up, checking the oil level, etc, it all seems good.  I rolled it over on it's side again and no leak!  The yuck/oil must have come from the grease that was on it already.  :)
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: Cobey on June 26, 2006, 05:49:13 AM
Ack!

Got the new trans in, started to get the motor in, but one of the lower bolts would just not screw in.  Pulled the motor back to find a piece of helicoil sticking out.  Pulled it the rest of the way out and went shopping for a replacement.  No joy on a Sunday.  ARGH.

I do have a question though.  How far back on the one way clutch grear is the torque converter supposed to sit?  I put the original one back in, as it wasn't leaking or anything, and when I wiggled it as far in as I could, it makes a scraping noise when rotated.  Pull it back out just a tad, and the noise is gone.

Cheers!
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: Cobey on July 02, 2006, 06:19:17 AM
Woohoo!!!  All done!  After getting the heli-coil installed, I mated the motor and trans, then took them apart again when a bolt for the flextplate/tc fell down inside, and finally back together again.  The only other spot of touble was the neutral safety switch, which I had put on wrong.  It can go on three ways, even though there is a key in it that should stop you from doing it.  (One way is no start, the second it the starter always runs when you tirn the key to "on", and of course, the right way.)  Ran her for a few minutes, checking for leaks, then topped off the ATF and took her for a spin.  All good!  No odd noises, smooth shifting, etc.  And, the wife gave up on the idea of me getting a new car, so, I get to keep her.  :)
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: bookwus on July 02, 2006, 03:44:45 PM
Hiya Cobey,

Congratulations!  On the fix and getting to keep the car to boot!

Now for a question.............are you gonna crack the case on the old tranny and find out what went wrong?  I, for one, would be interested in knowing.
Title: Tranny Translplant Q's
Post by: Cobey on July 02, 2006, 04:26:06 PM
Yup!  Opening her up is a sure thing.  It's part curiosity, part salvage operation, part failure analysis.  :)