Low gear

[bruce]

The Bentley manual states that Low gear is 2.06:1.  This is exactly the same ratio as 2nd gear in a 4 speed.  However, I know for a fact that some years of AS got a 2.25:1 Low gear.  I know this because I personally removed a 2.25 from my friend's dead 73 AS gearbox.  

My question is, what year did they change from the 2.06 to the 2.25 for Low gear?  Or was it always 2.25:1?

[volkenstein]

Bruce,
        I have two manuals published for Aus cars, both state 2.06:1 for an S-A 1st. I have a spare trans (pre 71) sitting on the bench in the shed. I'll shift it into 1st and check that one and post back.

Steve (Crasher) has VW microfiche and maybe Mike or Lee might have something in their literature collections.

What's the code on his gearbox? My shed one is a BA prefix.


Volkenstein

[bruce]

I don't know the code from my friend's dead trans.  The case was tossed over a year ago.

Have a look in your blue Bentley manual (66-69).  On page 27 of the manual trans chapter, refer to fig. 59.  Notice how on the extreme left helical cut gear (3rd), there is a very small groove machined into the tips of all the gear's teeth?  VW does this when parts are very close in appearance, but not interchangeable.  In this case it indicates an alternate gear ratio.  (also note the 2 lines machined into the straight cut gear that the guy's fingers are moving)

The 2.25:1 autostick low gear has this groove in it to differentiate it from the 2.06 gear.

Now refer to Fig 2 on page 5 of the autostick section in the same book.  The drain plug just happens to be exactly centered to Low gear.  If you flip the trans over and have a look down the hole, you should be able to tell if the gear has the groove or not.  You have to check to see if your gearbox has the plug in this location.  I think some other years had the plug further back.

[volkenstein]

Bruce,
       I've only got an Orange Bentley but I get the gist. I will try the drain plug (as mine has one, being an earlier build) and have a look.

So the gears are 36/16 as opposed to 35/17?

This will be interesting as my spare has been "done" at least once in it's life. It has the plastic adjuster rings rather than steel.

I gather you are Bruce and Bruce2 from STF and TheSamba? Welcome to the board!.


Regards
Volkenstein

[volkenstein]

Bruce,
         My spare is a 2.06:1 low gear. No grooves in the teeth and I engaged low, span the pinion and the mainshaft didn't turn 2.25 turns.

Mine is an old style case with drain plug, exposed spring seal and two temp switches.

I've asked Achilles to have a look at his two early spare Gb's when he has some time.


Regards
Volkenstein

[bruce]

Well, at the least, it confirms that there were 2 different ratios.  I was beginning to think they were only 2.25:1.  

Can you confirm the code on your spare trans is BA?

I did a tooth count on the 1973 AS Low gear I have, and it is 36/16 like you suggested.

If anyone wants a clearer pic of this indicator groove in the tips of the gear teeth, pull out your orange Bentley manual.  In Section 3 (manual transmission), page 41, Fig 9-52 shows a 4th gear with a clearly visible line.  This particular gear is a Bus 0.82:1 gear.

I gather you are Bruce and Bruce2 from STF and TheSamba?

Yep!

[Achilles]

I'll confess I'm not a gearhead.

What does the 2.25:1 vs. 2.06:1 mean in terms of performance?

[volkenstein]

Achilles,
          In simple terms, a tall (2.06:1) gear has more overall mph, less acceleration. A short gear (2.25:1) has less overall mph, more acceleration.

Regards
Volkenstein

[volkenstein]

Bruce,
       It sure is, and matches up with this table I pinched from somewhere:

BA 1300 / 1500 4.375 Semi Automatic from 8/68 – 8/70
BC 1300 / 1500 4.375 Semi Automatic from 8/68 – 8/70 with LSD
BE 1600 4.125 Semi Automatic from 8/70 – 8/71
BF 1600 4.125 Semi Automatic from 8/70 – 8/71 with LSD
BG 1600 4.125 Karmann Ghia Semi Automatic from 8/70
BH 1300 4.125 Karmann Ghia Semi Automatic from 8/70 with LSD
BJ 1300 4.375 Semi Automatic from 8/70
BK 1300 4.375 Semi Automatic from 8/70 with LSD
BL 1600 4.125 Semi Auto
BK 1300 4.375 Semi Automatic from 8/70 with LSD

Mine also has a G358 (or G835?) marking on the ring gear.

Regards
Volkenstein

[68AutoBug]

Hi Guys,
I have read where there were the two different final drives used-
4.375 and the later one maybe used in 1600 engined cars 4.125
and I read recently of the other different gear ratios...
but there was no info on what cars they were used in....

I also read some where recently that Wolfsburg never fitted a LSD to a beetle during manufacture???
Now thats an odd one??

Where is the gearbox type located? ie BA
I'm presuming I have a BA...
now a BA with LSD would be great...... lol...

Lee

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

[68AutoBug]

That list is a bit weird with a 1300 Karmann Ghia A/S with 4.125 final drive...??
as Karmann ghias are heavier than a beetle...!

I didn't know about the different final diff ratios, otherwise i would have looked for a gearbox with a higher ratio, as 4.375 seems a bit low...
but I haven't really found any info on what models had the higher ratios,
so I have another 68 model to pick up and install in the future...
Maybe a 4.125 would be a lot slower in acceleration?

I'm very happy with the performance of Low gear....
Anyone else use Low gear, when in traffic etc....
I don't use it much locally, but in other towns with traffic lights, I like to take off fast and show em what a beetle can do...      

My Blue Bentley manual, seems to have nothing the same as what was mentioned before.... its for 1966-68 models..

Lee Noonan

[bruce]

Lee, the blue Bentley says the R&P of the AS is 4.37.  The orange Bentley says the R&P is 4.12.  It could be that 1500s got the 4.37 and 1600s the 4.12.  The Bentley manuals only cover USA spec cars.  In 68-69 (blue), all USA Beetles had 1500cc engines, and in 70-79 (orange) USA Beetles had 1600s.  But then the Bentley is far from accurate on gears.

I think I read somewhere on this forum that the trans code is stamped into the main trans case forward of the diff on the right side, read from under the frame horns.  Just like on a 4 speed.

As far as the LSD is concerned, I invite anyone to say they have seen a ZF in an autostick.  I haven't.  Over the last 10 years I have owned approximately 80 IRS ZF LSDs.  Every one of those came out of a Type 181.  Not one single Beetle, Karmann Ghia, or Type 3; 4 speed or Autostick.  Things only.

[68AutoBug]

thats interesting that type 181s had LSD....
Did they all have LSD??
or only certain models??
were they swing axle or IRS rear ends??

sorry, for all the questions but type 181 or 182 {RHD} were never sold here...

what did you do with all those LSD??

Are they used in offroad buggies?

cheers

Lee Noonan    68AutoBug   Australia

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

[bruce]

No, not all Type 181s had LSDs.  In fact ZERO of the ones imported into the USA had an LSD.  The LSD was just an option.  That option was available to the general public, and for military versions.  Most Type 181s did NOT have an LSD.
ZF LSDs came in both swing axle and IRS.  IME, the swing axle ones are 10 times more rare.

Bought them, then sold them.  They got used in many applications.  Several went back into Things.  The last one I sold went to Greg at German Motor Works to be installed into a Thing.  I install them into all of my gearboxes, including the Berg 5 in my Beetle.  Have a look at the Jan 2007 of hotVWs.  The car at the bottom of the front cover has one of my diffs in it.

[volkenstein]

All,
   




You can see second gear through the drain plug. This drain plug is not on later type (single temp sender blah blah) gearboxes.
Your gearbox code is on the flat part of the rib to the left and slightly below the drain plug level in the pic. Squint real hard and you can see the letters/numbers.


Volkenstein