Engine Removal Update- New Pictures

Airhead · 12 August 2009, 22:27

Well the engine has now been removed from the Ghia, thanks to the help of mr & mrs Phil (aka automaticsamba/auto) those guys are amazing. Ive removed the bell housing to investigate the slipping clutch, the reson for the engine removal was because my car was slow to take off and the torque convertor was the prime suspect but that looks ok and the TC seal hasnt been leaking. When the bell housing was removed the inside of the transmission casing was covered in oil

it looks like it has been for some time, so Im guessing that it has contaminated the clutch, hence the clutch slipping and slow take off.

Question is how do I replace the seal that I assume is on the shaft sticking out, is this tricky to do whats the seal called and where do I get one from?

Help and advice appreciated thanks

Airhead

greenghia · 12 August 2009, 22:52

Hi, Unless I am completely confused(happens sometimes) the picture you have is of the gearbox side of the trans. The seal you see keeps the oil in the gearbox, there is a seal in the bell housing that seals ATF from the clutch side. If you have ATF in the gearbox then the seal I see may be the culprit, but I don't think so right now. The seal you would want is in the bell housing and is called the turbine shaft seal. Someone else on the forum might know where you could get one. Good luck with it!

Airhead · 12 August 2009, 23:03

Yeah I think there's the main drive shaft seal and the turbine shaft seal

Airhead

volkenstein · 13 August 2009, 01:03

Airhead,
Well, the debbil has sent the beast to you with wroth

.

Those two are the worst ones to blow as they are achingly NLA. For the trans input shaft one, I'd try www.volksbahn.com.au or www.stokerssiding.com.au. Hell, try them for the other one too. Crasher had to machine/make a sleeve to go in the Bellhousing bore to fit a SIMRIT BABSL seal which is the utter closest "type" he found. I bought a "normal" fitment one and the lip (I.D) isn't in the same position as a genuine VW one.

Guess what? He's in the UK!

I can root around the shed to find my old ones to grab some numbers from (or I can try ETKA) them if you want. Steve (Crasher) went "above and beyond" to reco his box.

Try a search as well. Someone (I can't recall) got one of those and posted up about it.

Regards
Sean

Airhead · 13 August 2009, 10:18

Oh dear, Sean could you get me the part numbers for the seals please I'd really appreciate that, is the difficulty in just getting hold of the seals or in the fitting of them as well how difficult is that? Do you have any contact details for the guy (Steve) in the UK? The other alternative I can see is that Ive been offered a low mileage tranny (35k miles) so would it be easiest to just swap it out?Any idea what to search for in the forum?

Thanks for your help

Airhead

volkenstein · 13 August 2009, 11:28

Airhead,
It was Greenghia who scored one from stokers! www.stokersvwparts.com.au is the correct website. Green said they only had one left after he snaffled that one.

www.longenterprises.com list a 001 301 085A seal which I *think* is the mainshaft seal.
Mine has 001 311 113 which came from Volksbahn.

Discussion No 1 : http://www.vwar.org/forum/index.php?topic=143.0

Now that carrier plate seal. SIMRIT make one that is good, but requires a 1mm larger OD sleeve to be fitted to the carrier plate shaft so the seal rides OK. The OD and width are good as well as the lip position.

Discussion No 1 : http://vwar.org/old_forum/index.php?topic=434

Hang on a tick and I'll see if I can find his e-mail. Found it. You have PM. You can also try and PM Crasher.

FWIW, the spend on the second trans may be less than the total of seals, bearing, postage and fabrication. Both of them are difficult little &^%$@#@'s. Mainshaft one has the potential to reduce you to "drooling simpleton" level

The carrier plate one I've done, so can pass on some tips. I've seen/heard horror stories about the MS one if at first it doesn't go to plan.

HTH
Volkenstein

Airhead · 13 August 2009, 17:40

Hi Sean

How would I know which seal has gone? could it be that the contamination is coming from the TC side not the transmission side? It does have a red colour to it?

Airhead

volkenstein · 14 August 2009, 01:40

Airhead,
Wipe, rub & smell. It looks like the Bellhousing to me. I'd even go so far as to suggest given the shape of the mainshaft seal and that it is double lipped with a garter and is only to stop "flung" oil that it is the least suspect. OTOH, you've got an unsealed bearing behind the support tube, and oil is pressurised against the bellhousing seal. Also looks like a little to much "rust wash-off". Can you see red stains through the slots in the carrier plate on the bellhousing? That would be another giveaway.

HTH
Sean

greenghia · 14 August 2009, 04:07

Looks like ATF fluid to me because of the red color. What color was the oil that came out of the gearbox when you removed the pan? If that oil is red too then it may be as simple as the two o-rings that go between the gearbox and bellhousing. Absolutely do not mess with either seal until you know which one is bad. The seal on the mainshaft visually looks good and yes it is a nightmare to remove without galling the housing it seals against. It is also a huge pita to install because of it's location. Do you have red oil on the back of the carrier plate(the plate the clutch is bolted to)? Let us know a little more and we can probably narrow it down.

Airhead · 14 August 2009, 18:17

Ok ive removed the clutch and it looks new apart from being contaminated, Im convinced that is ATF fluid that is leaking from the TC end, Ive undone the 8 6mm socket heads, question is how do I get to the O ring seal, is there a procedure for this?

Airhead

Airhead · 14 August 2009, 20:12

Ive removed the clutch carrier plate some more pictures below, There is a seal in there whats everyone thoughts on this Im thinking if it is ATF thats leaking onto the clutch then this seal looks relatively easy to fix but if its the main drive shaft seal

It certainly looks like a reddy brown colour:

Airhead

greenghia · 15 August 2009, 00:34

Hey Airhead, Just to be sure, the oil that came out from the gearbox when you removed the pan was not red was it? Second, Check right next to the drive plate hub and you will see a shiny spot on that boss where the seal rides. Does it look smooth with no nicks? (picture maybe?) Third the seal. You should be able to run your finger around the inside of the seal without any catches or tears. Get a light and look really close all the way around. If the seal looks good, don't try to remove it yet. It should have a pretty sharp ridge to seal on the drive plate. If there is a flat spot instead of a ridge that's bad. Now the drive plate and it's fit into the bearings in the bell housing, was it good and snug without any play when you wobbled it side to side. If the bearings go bad it can make a good seal leak. Oh yeah I can see by the pic that the seal is a 001 301 137a and that is the correct turbine shaft seal. Let us know what you find.

Airhead · 15 August 2009, 00:49

Hi Greenghia

The transmission oil did seem rather thin from what I ve heard transmission oil is usually quite thick, the drive plate did seem to be a snug fit it was hard to drive it out with a rubber mallet, will check on other things in morning, you mention an O rings n a previous reply where do they go from the Bentley manual I can only see the turbine shaft seal on the schematic diagram, thanks

Airhead

volkenstein · 15 August 2009, 03:05

Airhead,
In the top picture, the two bottom studs have O-rings and I can see them. Again, that seal in the top pic is the one that is NLA and difficult to find a correctly offset replacement seal. At least the bearing is a garden variety, but needs to have a C3 rating (close tolerance). Since you've disassembled it this far, run a small oil stone around the circlip groove that you can see in pic No 2 to remove the ridges.

Since it is out, how does the Throwout bearing feel when you rotate it?

Did you clean the carrier plate side of the bellhousing before you took the pics?

The clutch disc surface on the carrier plate is indeed filthy. A can of brake cleaner should remove the scunge. I'd rate your actual clutch disc suspect as well. How thick is it?

Regards
Sean

Airhead · 15 August 2009, 20:28

Ok the seal 'feels' ok I havent cleaned anything up its just as it was disassembled, there is a shiny ring on the clutch carrier plate shaft but its not a ridge

Is there an O ring that goes round the one way clutch support

Seal appears to be ok and bearing runs smooth

I really dont know what to do with this now problem is I cant get the seals, even if I could get the turbine shaft seal and replaced that I could put it all
back together and install it only to find it was the main drive shaft seal - nightmare!

Airhead