A/S won't always go into gear

[71RAGTOP]

Hi everyone.........

I'm back and ready for another season. When I last worked on the car, I was having problems with the engine backfiring and found out that I was adjusting the valves incorrectly. Once I had them adjusted properly, I took it for a test drive and it ran beautifully. Then the snow started to fly and I had to put her away for the winter.

Now, the lastest problem (and hopefully the last) is this. It won't always go into gear, but when it does, it shift great. The problem usually happens when it first starts up and I try to shift it into gear. It just won't shift. If I rev the engine for a while it will then shift into gear, but if I try to shift it into another gear immediately after shifting it into the first gear it won't go. But again, if I rev the engine it will go out of that first gear and shift into another.

When I finally do get it into gear and out on the road it shifts great. I can shift from gear to gear when I am driving, both up-shifting and down-shifting. But if I have it out of gear when I come to a stop light, and it is idling at normal idle, it won't shift when I need to go. I again have to rev the engine. It's almost as if the engine is not creatiing enough vacuum.

Now, this was a fresh restoration that I did. All of the hoses are new. The PICT34 carb was rebuilt. The vacuum tank was pressure checked and there are no leaks. The soleniod has been checked on the control valve and it checked out OK. The transmission was rebuilt and the is a new bladder in the servo.

I did take the control valve apart when I was restoring the car. Don't ask me why. I guess because I was curious. I'm pretty confident I put it back together properly.

What steps should I take to fix this problem? Thanks in advance for your help!
     

[volkenstein]

71Ragtop,
              A couple of Q's for you to start off with. How far did you take apart your control valve? Did you take off the brass spigot on the front (front of car) of the CV? Remove the little air filter? Disassemble the adjusting mechanism (reducing valve)? Play with the diaphragm adjustment screw? Hoses, what kind/type and where from?

Last one, got access to a MityVac? That'll help if you do.

It sounds like a reducing valve problem or vacuum supply/leak issue. The more you rev, the more vacuum you store and shifts are OK. Come to a crawl/stop and the supply or leak problem is magnified to more time & less revs. There is one passage in the CV body which would elongate shift actuation while at a stop but it is fiddly to get to.



Regards
Volkenstein

[71RAGTOP]

Hi Volkenstein........

I took the control valve completely apart. I tried making adjustments to the screw on top according to the Haynes manual (diaphragm adjuvting screw?). I was thinking of getting another control valve that has not been taken apart to see if that is the problem. The hoses are all from Mid America Motorworks. The larger ones have the fabric mesh on the outside. The smaller one that runs from the carb to control valve does not have anything around it. It's just a rubber hose. None of the hoses are reinforced with metal on the inside.

Should I try and locate another control valve and try that first? I found some used ones on thesamba.com. They look kind of rough but ads say that worked fine when taken off the car(s)

Thanks! 

[volkenstein]

71Ragtop,
             Getting a working spare is probably the best shot. I could walk you through it (I have a thread in the "old forum" with piccies) from scratch but no guarantees. Up to you, let me know.

The screw on top, and on the "bottom", order of assembly and adjustments and making sure the spigot and bleed hole is clean are crucial. Mating surfaces too if you split the body.

I am concerned over the large hoses. They have to be wire reinforced/vacuum rated or they'll collapse. Dfrommi had a pic somewhere of horribly collapsed un-reinforced hose. Get your VWFLAPS or get on the phone and get 6 feet of part RH12W from www.belmetric.com . The carb to CV hose isn't critical, but the others are. Hydraulic hose can work too.

Keep us posted
Volkenstein

[68autobug]

Hi

there are many 1/2 inch or 12.7 or 13mm hoses out there..

I've never had any problems with the vacuum hoses
and i just used transmission oil hose..
and its reinforced etc..

I just bought some nice transmission hose [300 PSI ]
it has a red cover over it... 12.7mm ID..

I used it for the engine oil hose to the external oil cooler..

cheers

Lee

Quality Hose is important [/glow]

[71RAGTOP]

I'll try to locate another Control Valve and also get the reinforced hose from Bel-Metric. Is the samba.com the best place to get another control valve? I saw a couple used ones on there for $20.00-$35.00. There's also a rebuilt one for $250.00. I think that's a little pricey. I'll let you know how I make out. Thanks!

[volkenstein]

71Ragtop,
             We've discussed that so called "rebuilt" one. Stay away.
Get an honest second hand one from other sellers. I get most of my A-S spares off TheSamba, and I live an ocean away!


HTH
Volkenstein

[Bookwus]

Hiya 71,

Just chiming in here.  You're already getting some good advice from Sean.

Know this........that pricey $250 "rebuilt" control valve is a con job.  The parts to rebuild a control valve simply do not exist anymore.  I have made repeated inquiries to the seller of that "rebuilt" control valve.  No answers so far.

But also know that these things just about never die.  Even the worst looking control valves are nearly pristine on the inside.  With most of these things a good cleaning on the outside and a little adjusting of the adjust screw and you're on your way.  A control valve in the $25 to $30 range is a pretty decent buy.

[greenghia]

Hello, You might check the vacuum tank and hose connections again before you buy another control valve.  If there is a leak in the tank or line going to or comming from the vacuum tank the shifting would perform exactly as you have described. Upon startup the vacuum tank has no vacuum so it takes a while for it to build up enough vacuum to actuate the servo. If you immediatly try to select another gear there is not enough vacuum stored to actuate the servo twice in a row.  Try this, start the car and run it for about 3 minutes. Shut off the engine then turn the key back on. Move the shifter from neutral toward a gear and listen for the servo to actuate.  You should be able to actuate the servo 3 or more times with the stored vacuum.  If you can't then there is a problem with the vac storage somehow. Let us know how this test works out.

[71RAGTOP]

OK... Finally getting back to everyone. I replaced all of the hoses with wire reinforced hose. I also bought another control valve and put that on. The car is no better at shifting. If anything it got worse. I was stranded on the side of the road for 1/2 hour because I couldn't get it into gear. When I take the hoses off the control valve you can hear pressurized air escaping so I have to believe the tank is OK, plus I had the tank tested and they said it was OK. I did the test that "greenghia" suggested. I let the car run for about five minutes, then turned it off, turned the key back on and yes, I can hear the solenoid and servo working. The car shifts absolutely fine when the key is on but the car is not running. I am very frustrated at this point and I'm ready to swap it out for a standard shift. Only problem is... my wife won't learn to drive one. I live in Mentor, Ohio which is a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio USA. Does anyone know of a good mechanic in this area that can work on it for me? Anything else I can try? Thanks for the comments and help. It really is appreciated!!!

[greenghia]

Okay 71, Here is the next thing I would try.  I would drive the car until it stopped shifting and repeat the check you did with the engine off(that was successful). If you do not hear the sound clean the connections as outlined later in this post.  Even if you do you may still have an intermittent connection problem between the stickshift and the control valve.  Here is how to check...  Set the parking brake and get a helper. Start the engine, then connect a jumper wire from the control valve solenoid(shifter side, not the one from the coil) and ground the wire. With the wire grounded your helper should be able to shift the car at idle without problems. If so there is a problem between the shifter and the control valve.  If it can not be shifted then change the jumper to the coil side of the control valve and connect to the coil positive side. The helper should be able to shift the car at idle now. If so you have a problem with power between the coil and the control valve. If one of these is the problem then do this...Check and clean all connectors that have to do with the control valve.  The wire from the positive side of the coil(the side that does not have the distributor wire hooked to it, goes to a fuse holder... clean the connection at the coil and make sure it is tight, clean the wire at the fuse connector comming in and going out then both sides and the fuse, then clean the push on spade connector and the spade on the control valve. Make sure they are shiny.  Then clean the spade connector and the spade terminal for the other wire that is connected to the control valve.  This wire goes under the car to the transmission (68autobug knows where better than I do) and connects to a switch I think(don't remember). Once you have both of those spades and connectors clean then loosten and unscrew the stick shift and examine the contact points. Make sure to clean them and then reinstall the stickshift and adjust it(there are instructions on this site in another post).  Another idea is a bad ground or connection at the battery. Maybe when you rev the motor up the generator produces enough voltage for the solenoid to operate and when it is just idling there is not enough current. This could also be caused from a bad connection as previously outlined.   Lastly if all the above tests have not found the problem I would consider 1) clutch way out of adjustment, 2)a mechanical failure or rusted up parts between the vacuum actuator and the throw out bearing. I can offer a method to check this if you want as this post is getting very long!  Let us know how it works out.

[greenghia]

Hi Again 71,  If forgot one simple diagnostic check. It is possible on my car but maybe not on all. When you have the condition that car will not shift, push down on the shifter while rotating the shift knob 180 degrees and try to shift then.  If you are able to rotate the shift knob and it rotates the shifter shaft with it,  it should put the contact in a new spot and may make connection and work. If it does then you need to clean the contacts in the shifter.

[68autobug]

I just had a similar problem...
at idle the gears crunched, but when driving it was OK...

turned out to be the hose to the vacuum tank
I didn't tighten the hose clamp....lol

I also adjusted the points at the bottom of the shifter
I just tighten it it up slightly
there was a lot of play before...

Now its going like it just came out of the factory....lol

LEE

[71RAGTOP]

Hi everyone. Today is a wonderful day!!! I found the problem. The BRAND NEW diaphragm that I put in the servo had a hole in it. It now has another new diaphragm in it and it runs great! I had the car tuned up and it runs like it came out of the showroom. Who would think that a NEW diaphragm would have a hole in it? I want to thank everyone for all of their input and support. My wife is extremely thrilled now that her baby is able to be driven. Thanks again for everyone's help. It is truly appreciated. 

[68autobug]

Great News...
I wouldn't personally take the control valve apart...
and i have a spare...

You should get many miles out of it now...

and its much better if You fix the problems

as there are few people who want to touch an autostick....

and even less who know how to fix it..

cheers

LEE




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