VW Automatic newbie :-)

trevorbrady · 03 August 2008, 00:10

Hi all,

I have recently acquired a rusty '71 Type3 Notchback with an Automatic transmission. I already have a '73 bug and '74 bay window Westy, both with manual transmissions so this is both my first type3 and my first Automatic. Since I got the Notch last week I've rebuilt the brakes (all four of the flexi hoses were collapsed, this car hasn't been driven since 1995

) and just when I was hoping to take it out for a drive to see how this Automatic thing works, I discovered the flywheel (or whatever it's called in an Automatic

) oil seal is leaking. So I now have to pull the engine and replace the oil seal. I've done this in both the bug and bus but obviously you can use the flywheel locking tool to help you remove the big gland nut. From the little I've read so far, this isn't as straightforward with an Automatic...

This isn't a job I'm looking forward to

Anyway, other than that, the car is pretty rusty and will need a lot of restoration metalwork if it is ever to be good again. I'm trying to decide whether or not to keep the car, the rustoration work is putting me off. I'm able to do the work it's just the amount of one-off fabrication it'll require that's putting me off. I'm hoping to get it out for a drive first and decide whether I like it enough to keep it.

The car is a German import to Ireland, it was imported 2 years ago after it was "barn found" in Germany. The type 3 is a pretty rare car in Ireland, I'd say there's no more than 50 or so in the whole country, so this Automatic version must be rarer still.

pics:

Bookwus · 03 August 2008, 01:09

Hiya Trev,

Welcome to the fringe of the VW world.

Really nice looking project! I'm thinking that color on your Notch is Savannah Beige. Both my cars are that color.

About the seal and flexplate removal.................you hit the nail on the head. You cannot use a flywheel lock on a flexplate. Further, the flexplate doesn't like to be mishandled - you need to treat it with a modicum of care. Those of us with AutoSticks (a cousin to your fully automatic) have used the "rope trick" with much success to remove flexplates.

This is how it goes............ pull a spark plug and then make sure that piston is at the bottom of its throw. The stuff a length (I use a piece about 2 feet long) of soft rope down the spark plug hole and into the combustion chamber. Be sure to leave a "handle" of rope sticking out of the spark plug hole so you can retreive the entire thing. Now turn your crank so the piston moves up to compress the rope. This will "lock" the piston (and, of course the crank) in place allowing you to put about 250 lbs on that gland nut. I've been able to remove flexplates in this manner all by my lonesome.

And, for what it might be worth, hold on to that car. If it is as rare as you say over in the Emerald Isle you may have quite the little treasure.

trevorbrady · 03 August 2008, 01:32

Quote from: Bookwus on 03 August 2008, 01:09
Those of us with AutoSticks (a cousin to your fully automatic) have used the "rope trick" with much success to remove flexplates.

This is how it goes............ pull a spark plug and then make sure that piston is at the bottom of its throw. The stuff a length (I use a piece about 2 feet long) of soft rope down the spark plug hole and into the combustion chamber. Be sure to leave a "handle" of rope sticking out of the spark plug hole so you can retreive the entire thing. Now turn your crank so the piston moves up to compress the rope. This will "lock" the piston (and, of course the crank) in place allowing you to put about 250 lbs on that gland nut. I've been able to remove flexplates in this manner all by my lonesome.

what a great and simple idea!! I would never have thought of that!!

thanks for the welcome, I'll keep you posted to my progress

trevorbrady · 06 August 2008, 22:20

I pulled the engine last night and this afternoon I've been replacing all the service parts on the engine, now that it's out. The diaphragm in the fuel pump had perished and leaked a lot of fuel into the sump, diluting the oil and leaking out the main crank oil seal. I used the magic rope trick to lock the engine to remove the big gland nut and it worked a treat!! Thansk for the tip

One thing to mention though: make sure you're doing it on the compression stroke, where both valves are closed otherwise you might bend a valve by accident.

oil seal now replaced and the flex plate is refitted. Should have the engine back in tomorrow some time

68autobug · 10 August 2008, 16:26

Great work

the type 3s are getting very rare everywhere...

and the Automatics maybe even rarer

like the automatic beetles in Australia

cheers

LEE

trevorbrady · 10 August 2008, 18:32

thanks Lee

the waether was good on friday so I fired her up, drove out of the garage under her own steam and embarked on her maiden voyage down the road 2K and back with no problems!!
The brakes are still a bit tight, the front calipers really need to be rebuilt but I'm waiting on the rebuild kits from VWHeritage to come. It is a bit sluggish due to the brakes binding but the engine runs nicely, the transmission shifts itself smoothly and kicks down when you boot the throttle. With the "ghetto" interior and no seatbelt I wasn't going to go very fast but it tanks along pretty well.

Bookwus · 11 August 2008, 00:35

Hiya Trevor,

OK......it's education time for me.

I know that over on your side of the pond you have to submit your vehicle yearly for a road worthy inspection. The MOT? And there's something about accumulating "points" when you violate the terms of the MOT. I know I'm not explaining this very well and I may have some of this mixed up, so cut this Yank a little slack. Anyway....my question is this.....what would happen to you if you were pulled over by the police while driving a car in that condition?

Here in the States we'd get cited for driving without registration - a realtively minor violation. And there would be no problem with putting a potentially unsafe vehicle on a public roadway. Truth be told there are vehicles out on our roads right now that are in MUCH worse shape than your Notch. But they do meet air quality control regulations. LOL

Bookwus · 11 August 2008, 00:38

And...............you gotta love that Savannah Beige!

My 70 Bug and 70 Bus just behind it. Both Savannah Beige.

trevorbrady · 11 August 2008, 11:53

Savannagh beige is a beautiful colour, but this one is a shade lighter, it's this:

Bookwus · 11 August 2008, 16:59

Yowch!

Hah! Sure looked the same on my monitor.

Hey Trevor...........how about that question I asked about the MOT? What's the lowdown on that?

trevorbrady · 11 August 2008, 21:19

Quote from: Bookwus on 11 August 2008, 16:59
Hey Trevor...........how about that question I asked about the MOT? What's the lowdown on that?

sorry Bookwus, I didn't see the MOT question

here in the Republic of Ireland (as opposed to Northern Ireland) we have our own version of the UK/Northern Ireland MOT, it's called the NCT here, for National Car Test. Fortunately, cars older than 30 years old are NCT exempt and are not subject to being tested so technically any old heap over 30 years old could be driven on the roads. However, you are obliged by law to hold valid insurance for your car, the minimum being third party insurance (so if you cause an accident and someone else is injured or their car damaged, at the very least they will get compensated. You can choose to increase your cover to comprehensive so you are compensated for the damage to your car or personal injury. Anyway, the point of the insurance speech is that the insurance companies insist on an engineer's report on cars older than 30 years old, in the absence of a NCT test. It's their way of ensuring that the cars they take on the risk of are at the very least roadworthy. You can choose to take a NCT in your 30+ year old car in lieu of an engineer's report for insurance purposes.

By rights, a car in the condition of my notch would never pass an NCT or achieve a very favourable engineer's report. While I have ensured the brakes work perfectly and the suspension and steering are adequate, the huge holes in the bodywork would significantly weaken the car's structure in the event of a crash. If I got pulled over by the police, I *think* they would be within their rights to confiscate the car on the spot to have it assessed by their own engineer (obviously I don't have a NCT pass or an engineer's report for it).

When I took the car for a drive, I transferred the insurance from my beetle for the day (oddly, no questions are asked in relation to the roadworthiness of the car being transferred to

) and only drove it 4km on back roads with no traffic and miniscule chances of meeting any police. I just had to take it for a spin, I've never driven a type3 or a VW Automatic before so curiosity was getting the better of me!! I wouldn't however, drive this car on a heavily traficed road, I just wouldn't feel safe in it.

As for the UK MOT and the points question, I'm sorry, I can't answer as I don't know

Bookwus · 12 August 2008, 02:10

Hiya Trevor,

Quote from: trevorbrady on 11 August 2008, 21:19 .........If I got pulled over by the police, I *think* they would be within their rights to confiscate the car on the spot to have it assessed by their own engineer (obviously I don't have a NCT pass or an engineer's report for it)

So........you would have to pay an impound fee and the fee for an inspection to recover your car? Would there be any sort of fine levied on top of that?

Quote.....As for the UK MOT and the points question, I'm sorry, I can't answer as I don't know

No problem. I was just interested in the vehicular requirements in your neck of the woods. You have to meet much more stringent requirements than we do over here.

trevorbrady · 12 August 2008, 09:23

Yeah, you'd probably have to pay the impound fee and the inspection fee. I don't know if there is an automatic fine but I would imagine if the car was found to be sub-standard and a risk to other road users you could be charged with wreckless driving and brought to court which would probably result in a fine then.

Generally, people comply with the laws regarding cars and driving, we have a fairly high level of road deaths for such a small population so the media and therefore the politicians are heavy on the road safety thing. I have heard of some Honda drivers having their cars confiscated because the cop who stopped them felt that they were too low and weren't roadworthy. I don't think he proved anything on the spot but his hunch was enough to confiscate the cars.

The government ran a "scrappage scheme" a few years ago in an effort to remove a lot of the bad cars from the road, they offered £1000 of a government subsidised discount off ALL cars if you brought in your old junker to be scrapped. While it did have a positive effect on road safety, unfortunately for us classic car enthusiasts, it was the death of many old cars that would otherwise have been kept going. People just couldn't turn down the offer of free cash so all sorts of cars, good and bad were scrapped.

This, added to the general awareness of road safety means you won't see any really junk cars on the roads here. (like my notch

)

68autobug · 12 August 2008, 15:52

Wow...
thats a nasty thing to do... offer owners $2200AUS for their old cars
if that had happened over here..
naturally many good beetles and type 3s would have disappeared for sure...
Mike, I like that $45,000 AUS type 2 behind your beetle... lol

and in Australia, and the state I live in Mike,
We have to get our cars passed every year by a licenced examiner [Mechanic] [many of these about]
regardless of how old it is... and We get a Pink slip - items ticked if OK..
otherwise you need to have the car examined again...

If the car is Not road registered continously, You need to have you car passed by a [Blue slip]
more stringent examiner - usually there are only one of these in Major towns .

In some other states of Australia , there is no yearly examination, but there are patrols out every day
pulling up older cars and checking them over...
If they are unroadworthy - the car is left by the roadside.. and you walk...

If You drive an unregistered [uninsured] car in My State..
the fine is over a Thousand dollars...

[ I see in a newspaper that an 18 year old learner driver was fined something like $1600 and
couldn't drive for 6 months] the licenced driver sitting beside her was also fined..

The worst thing Over here Mike, is that Your Drivers licence is worth so many points..
say 12 points [Guess] and every time you get booked for speeding - You pay the fine
which can be $250 to $2000 depending on how fast you go..
and you lose points off your licence, so if You get booked for speeding [causing an accident etc]
a few times You lose 3-4 points each time... so 3 times speeding at 4 points = No licence..

and if you are really speeding, like 200kmh in an 80kmh zone
they cut your licence up on the spot, and confiscate you car and fine You
thousands of dollars...

so its really great to be driving a 1600cc autostick beetle mike....

and there are Police about in Unmarked cars -with radar - and speed cameras
which are plainly visible and have huge signs telling you they are there..
but some cameras change speeds - 2.30pm to 4pm - speeds on roads and highways
near schools are 40KMH zones... so We need to know what day it is -
[Weekends-school holidays] or an ordinary school day and the time...

If You don't know whether its a school day or not, and what time it is....
You hit the Brakes... and drive at 40kmh.. if its before 230 or after 4pm
every one will overtake you... lol and this happens a lot..

I don't wear a watch any more as i use my mobile cell phone to tell the time...
but if the police catch you driving with a phone in Your hand - $350 and 3 points]

cheers Mike....

[/b]
LEE PS: I'm not sure i want to drive again after reading the above

trevorbrady · 12 August 2008, 18:32

Quote from: 68autobug on 12 August 2008, 15:52

The worst thing Over here Mike, is that Your Drivers licence is worth so many points..
say 12 points [Guess] and every time you get booked for speeding - You pay the fine
which can be $250 to $2000 depending on how fast you go..
and you lose points off your licence, so if You get booked for speeding [causing an accident etc]
a few times You lose 3-4 points each time... so 3 times speeding at 4 points = No licence..

I don't wear a watch any more as i use my mobile cell phone to tell the time...
but if the police catch you driving with a phone in Your hand - $350 and 3 points]

yeah, we have those here too, and mandatory seatbelt wearing, you can lose points from your license for not wearing your belt. No excuses. And anyone under 18 years of age in your car not wearing a belt will lose you points too since they're "in your care".

still though, the laws are there for our and other's protection so it's not a huge deal complying with them...