AS Newbie, in trouble already!

[B-Dubya]

Hi guys, I just bought a 68 autostick, and the trans seems to be stuck in gear. The previous owners shop said its stuck between 1st and 2nd. The car will start and move....no nuetral, no reverse, just stuck. When driving it on to the trailer, it wouldn't pull it without a running start. So is it just stuck in 1st and doesnt have the go to get up inclines? Is this a clutch issue or something more horrible? I'd appreciate any input, and I think this thing might be fun to drive with an AS, instead of converting to manual ( :shock: ). Thank you! -Brian

[bookwus]

Hiya B,

Welcome to the group!  Glad to have you aboard.

Interesting situation you have on your hands.  Here are a couple of comments - take 'em for what they might be worth.

AutoSticks were equipped with a nuetral safety switch.  This switch would only allow the car to be started in nuetral.  It may be that the PO has disabled this switch.  This may be something you should check on.

If the shift lever is actually stuck between 1st and 2nd, then it would be stuck in nuetral (nuetral being between 1st and 2nd in the shift pattern).  This would also allow it to start if the nuetral switch were still functioning.

That it moves under its own power tells you that the tranmission is working.  Your problems are likely to be found in the electrical and vacuum systems.  Less likely, but still possible, are problems inside the bellhousing with clutch components.  From what I've seen of old, relatively uncared for AutoSticks, I'd be thinking that your problems can be solved by replacing vacuum hoses, rebuilding the clutch servo, and adjusting the control valve.  AutoStick problems are rarely INSIDE the transmission case.  And that's a good thing for the DIYer.

[B-Dubya]

Thank you for the input! Upon further thought, I realized that the shifter may not even be moving the way it should. Could the mechanism be stuck? Looking at past records from PO, he had the a problem with with the shifter and shift points. I think the shifter may just be jammed in second? It would still move but have problems with inclines right? Even with the engine off, the shifter still doesn't seem to move right. But you say the trans itself should be fine? That's a good thing. I need to really look at it and see what's up. I really appreciate you help as I have found this trans is quite a piece of work.
-Brian

[bookwus]

Hiya B,

Let's see if I can help you with your questions in order..........

".....the shifter may not even be moving the way it should. Could the mechanism be stuck?"

It is possible.  But again, the problem is most likely to be outside the tranmission case itself.  Here's how the "shift" gets back to the transmission.  The driver moves the shift lever.  The shift lever is connected to a shift rod which runs back through the center tunnel.  This shift rod is supported by a shift bushing located just aft of the shift lever.  At the rear end of it's length the shift rod is attached to the shift rod connector.  The shift rod connector is, in turn, connected to the selector lever (often called the "hockey stick") coming from the transmission.  

The most likely source of the symptom you describe is the shift rod connector.  You can easily access the shift rod connector by removing the oval cover plate atop the tunnel.  You'll find it under the rear seat.  If the shift rod connector is doing its job correctly, every move made by the shift rod will be transferred to the hockey stick.

Then too, the front shift rod bushing could be worn out.  This will definitely affect the travel and feel of the shift lever.

Finally, one item we have not mentioned is the shift plate.  That item is found right under the rubber boot at the bottom of your shift lever.  It needs to be installed with the correct orientation and then it usually needs to be tweaked a bit to get the right feel for the shift lever.

My guess is that your problem lays in one of those three areas.

"........jammed in second? It would still move but have problems with inclines right?

Yes!  And a word about AutoStick ranges (in a manual they are referred to as gears).  Low range is for starting off or climbing a steep hill.  Max speed about 27 mph.  1st range will get you through most around town type driving.  Max speed about 46 mph.  2nd range is for highway cruising.  As such it will have very little "pull" off the line and, I would imagine, have a hard time getting up an incline from a dead start.

Hang in there.  Sounds to me as if most of your problem are solvable.

[B-Dubya]

You are awesome, I really appreciate your help! I will take a look at the old girl today as you said, and hopefully find the problem source to be a simple one. Thank you! I'll likley be back if I find something else.... :?

[68AutoBug]

Hiya Brian,
If the small vacuum hose going to the carburetor is off....
the clutch will take a long time.... up to 10 seconds or more before the clutch finally engages.... thats in My beetle with all new hoses...
and everything in correct working order.....

If the control valve in the engine bay {Left Hand side]has been tampered with... screw on top turned.... it can take longer for the clutch to engage..
I haven't actually tried to go up a steep incline in Drive 2..... [top gear] from a standing start.....

I like to use the 3 gears...  as I've been told its better for the transmission
I was told using just Drive 2 [top gear - overdrive] caused many of the autosticks problems when they were new....
Use Low - Drive 1 - Drive 2....

As  some one else says - You shouldn't be able to start the engine when the gear lever is in gear.... Its supposed to be in neutral....
so that switch has been short circuited.... probably the two connections have been tied together...

Your car definately isn't jammed between two gears...
More likely jammed in Drive 2   [overdrive top gear]...
There is a lock out plate under the gearlever, which can wear out and maybe jam the gearlever.... [although I've never seen it happen]
then the connector under the oval plate [as already mentioned]
then the small inexpensive nylon bush in the tunnel just rear of the gearlever... these are now wearing out on manuals... [In Australia]

Seeing the start lockout isn't working, maybe the PO has undone the two gearlever bolts... allowing the assembly to move in any direction...
This is a simple adjustment if You have done it before....
If You haven't its not so easy....  
If You can find reverse without pushing the gearlever down...
[once its working OK] You don't have the lock out plate in the correct position....

So, it doesn't look like a huge problem.... More like the PO's man made problems...

You most probably need a Workshop manual for Your Beetle...
these are available New & used from;-     http://www.amazon.com
I have bought 12 different manuals... although You don't really need that many .... :roll:  :lol:  

Send Me Your email address for scanned pages on the AutoStick...


Best of Luck Brian

Lee Noonan  ----  68AutoBug -----  Australia ----

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

[B-Dubya]

Thanks for the help guys...but it appears my problem is deeper.... I took off the shifter and tried to manually move the shifter at the trans (under the cover in the rear), and it wouldn't budge. So that leads me to believe that the shifter is jammed in the trans (worn bushing or otherwise inside?). The autoclutch however, is working....just had to push a bit harder...needs adjustment.

[bookwus]

Hiya B,

Yep, that is not good news.

However, all is not lost.  The hockey stick "rides" in the nosecone of the transmission.  It works as a lever (sort of).  It could be jammed and the rest of the transmission would be fine.  But to find if that is the case, you'll have to remove the transmission (looks like you'd have to do that in any case) and take off the nosecone to examine the inside where the hockey stick does its work.

A "Plan B" in case the tranny is actually gummed up and shot is to replace it.  You should be able to find a good AutoStick tranny for $150 or less.  That would be (basically) a bolt-it-in kind of proposition.

Keep us up-to-date.

[B-Dubya]

Well.... I've decided to go with a conversion to manual...I know you guys don't want to hear that, but I live in the mountains and I think I may be better off. If I didn't have to pull the trans to fix it, I'd leave it, but I've already picked up a mildly used rebuilt manual and the other necessary acoutraments for about 150. I plan on making it a baja too, so I doubt the AS would be good for that..... I very much appreciate all your help though! Oh...and I guess I'll be having an AS for sale soon.... Was thinking about ebay, but?

[bookwus]

Hiya B,

Entirely understandable!

But there may be a hitch you have overlooked...............

In 1968 AutoStick pans were produced separately from manual transmission pans.  As a dedicated AutoStick pan, they had no clutch tube welded in the center tunnel as does a manual pan.  All of which means, that, in order to convert your 68 to a manual, you will have to weld in a clutch tube.  

On the face of it, that doesn't sound too bad.  But the actual job is a bear and, if you have to farm it out, will easily double the cost of the conversion.

You might want to check into that aspect of a conversion.

[NOVA Ghia Owner]

Also, check the electrical connector under the rear seat.  There is a connector for the AS transmission (at least on Ghias) wire from the shifter.  I once had this come unplugged.  The car was in neutral.  I could start it but not get it into gear.  I could not move the gear lever.  Plugging the connector back together solved the problem.

[B-Dubya]

Nova...thanks for the advice, but the shifter and clutch itself do work.  And as far as the notorious clutch tube, yeah, I have researched the conversion extensively. Are there any drawbacks to converting to a hydraulic clutch? That seems like a nice easy alternative.

[volkenstein]

B-dubya,
           Maybe the only PITA is the clutch MC placement itself. Most buggys have space for the pedal/MC/reservoir assembly to be close together. On a std beetle, the "napoleons hat" may interfere with that design. You could get a divorced MC and drill/tap etc just like the brake MC if they market those types. The only ones I've seen have been buggy assemblies so I really don't know what's out there....

Then you are up for routing either steel or braided lines to and through the trans to hook it up.



Volkenstein

[B-Dubya]

Ok, well, My father decided that we're just going to put the tube in....had to take out the interior to fix the good ol' battery tray hole anyway. What's PITA by the way?

[volkenstein]

B-dubya,
           It's the abbreviation (netspeak) for Pain In The Ar$e.

Have you read the sticky on www.thesamba.com Late Model/Super forum?

Lot's of detail there....


Enjoy
Volkenstein